I don’t think I believe in “God” anymore

[anonymous1120]

I feel really low today, my trigger was reading an online story about how Madeline’s body might be found in a few days as police think it’s 30 mins from hotel in a well. I’m sorry I stopped reading so details might not be fully accurate. My eldest daughter has just turned 4 and it’s really upset me thinking what Maddie might have gone through in her last moments.

I know some people will respond negatively to me and hence the name change. I’m really struggling to think how can God really exist and let awful and evil things happen all the time. My faith has really been tested over the years and I do not believe in God anymore.

Believing in a 'better ever after' means two things 1) We fail to take care of what we've got here, believing that it's just temporary and disposable 2) We live our lives in a perpetual state of 'I'll be happy when.....' and fail to take responsibility for our actions.

I'd agree that's the case with some people of faith.

However, to live with those two statements as a basis for our lives would be contradicting the teaching of Jesus, the very thing Christians are attempting to follow. At the beginning of Scripture humanity is encouraged to take care of the earth, to be good stewards (one reason I so abhor climate change deniers or those Christians who say that we shouldn't bother with the environment 'cos Heaven) I would say that as a Christian, I am even more challenged to take care of what is around me (I'm not saying I manage this or am 'better' being a Christian, just that the challenge is there for me).

With number 2, it contradicts Christian faith and Christian living because we are at all times holding before us the model of Jesus: to feed the hungry, uphold the oppressed, care for those who society leave on the margins - generally try to make life better for all. That's what the earliest churches did and why Christianity flourished through the hostile Roman Empire. Failing to take responsibility for our actions 'cos Heaven would be a grave misuse of our faith and a wrong against the God we purport to worship. Instead of allowing our hope of heaven to make us lax and uncaring in the now, instead we allow it to energise us to make better decisions in the now and work for good because we believe the hope of the gospel is transformed lives, and demonstrating the love of God in action.

I do not agree Scripture was written for power - if so, they didn't do such a great job, writing about a faith which was about promoting the weak over the strong, about all persons being equal and women being allowed to actually learn and teach in a society where this would be frowned upon. Much of the OT is hard to read but it's the story of a people discovering what it is to walk in the light of God's moral law - ie of defending the rights of the oppressed over the powerful. Jesus himself was hardly a great example of human power, born in poverty, worked in humble work and then taught about turning the other cheek, doing to others as they would have done to themselves and feeding the hungry.

God gave Laws and commandments to live by. God gave people free will. God judges those who use their free will and break the commandments.

@backseatcookers
In what way am I not being kind

I can’t believe anyone still believes in God these days

Really? Well either you're telling porkies. Or I am. I'll leave that with you!

LastTrainEast My apologies ,I thought that the police in Germany had found enough evidence to convict CB. my mistake then .Didnt hear it on MN its been all over the news for several weeks now! The papers yesterday stated that a letter had been sent to the McCann family . Just feel so deeply sorry for them ,they dont need any more stress thats for sure!

if we all skip along to being evil and cold hearted atheists surely no one will help those in need ?

Saying atheists are evil and cold hearted

Saying if everyone was atheist nobody would help those in need

I help people in need but don't believe in god - do my contributions and compassion not count then?

Would you have left your daughter in an apartment and gone to dinner?

You've shown no empathy for the parents involved - you are not supposed to (as a Christian) judge others as only god can judge

Oh and finally, other than your first post, your contributions on this thread have been very short defences of things people have challenged you on.

You have not offered condolences to people who have been through difficult times, you've shown no empathy or sympathy.

I even mentioned this but you've just come back asking how you having been kind in a short snarky post (again) instead of saying anything to those who have shared their struggles.

You've used a thread on which you're claiming to be a Christian to do nothing other than judge others and then defend yourself against judgement.

You've only engaged in negatives, you've shown no love or kindness like @madhairlady and I have done to each other despite not sharing the same beliefs.

That's some ways in which you've been unkind @silverstrawberry.

HTH.

@backseatcookers I agree with you about Madeline's parents, judging them is cruel, especially now. We all make mistakes as parents, and we then have to live with them. Madeline was killed by this paedophile, her parents must be devastated right now.

I'm more disgusted with the Portuguese police, as it seems that the perpetrator was right under their noses. This has dragged on for so long; let's face it, if Madeline's parents hadn't kept campaigning, the truth would never have come to light.

I wouldn't leave my children because I know evil is out there it's my opinion and I'm entitled to have one. If you do good deeds that's great but not one person can say God doesn't exist when there is no proof

I had a “born again” Christian upbringing. I believed until university then it waned. I could never feel what the others were feeling so tried harder but still couldn’t.
I’m pretty much an atheist. But I have fond memories of the version Jesus I had in my mind at that time.

If you do good deeds that's great but not one person can say God doesn't exist when there is no proof

Equally not one person can say god does exist when there is no proof.

That's what faith is surely, a belief in the absence of definite proof.

Nobody has said you aren't entitled to a belief, they've made you aware that you are expressing your beliefs in an angry and negative way, showcasing selfish defensiveness rather than anything positive.

Like I said some people on here have been lovely to each other, whether believers or not.

You've chosen, yet again, to not engage with any kindness or empathy for other people, instead just talking about yourself and how you don't agree with the perception of you. And yet again just judge other people.

Maybe have a read of the bible again and then have a think about the following messages (directly from bible passages) and whether you are living any of them:

• love thy neighbour
• only god can judge
• encourage each other and build one another up
• be kind and tender hearted
• love is not arrogant or rude
• love your enemies
• weep with those who weep

Do you honestly think you have reflected any of those messages in this thread, which was an opportunity to spread the love of the god you say you believe in?

Sorry forgot to tag you @silverstrawberry but my post was to you obviously.

So you don't see the irony in what your saying? Your an atheist and want me to behave more like a Christian ?

So you don't see the irony in what your saying? Your an atheist and want me to behave more like a Christian ?

Not at all, that isn't what irony is.

Because I'm saying I think you should stand by the beliefs you claim to have. Especially if you think it's ok to judge others based on those beliefs.

Because you say you believe in god and the word of god, yet you're displaying a really negative, unkind tone and thoughts - none of which reflect the teachings of the book that you believe is the word of god.

That I don't believe it is the word of god is irrelevant. Claiming to be a believer and a Christian and then acting in an unchristian unloving way is hypocritical.

As I said, I think it would be valuable for you to think about whether you're embodying the words of the book that is the basis of your religious beliefs? I included some examples in my last post.

I'm sorry you feel so negatively towards other people despite having your beliefs, like I said there have been other people on the thread of different beliefs including other Christians have been kind and empathetic, not judged bereaved parents, called atheists evil and cold hearted or failed to acknowledge other people's suffering.

You have the patience of a saint @backseatcookers :) but I think that those who are going to understand your argument may already have understood it.
Some of these posts are making me exclaim the name of the deity I don't believe in. Now that is irony!

OP, I have not read anything other than your original post so perhaps this has already been said/answered, if so I apologise.

If you feel you no longer believe in God then that is 100% your choice and you should not have to justify yourself or your reasons in any kind of way.

I do believe in God, but for many many years, I absolutely did not and was vehemently against the mere suggestion.

There is so much evil around us, it’s no wonder that it’s hard, or for some actually impossible, to believe there is a God that made us and takes care of us.

In the recent months my own faith has wobbled, as I imagine it has for many other believers. However I myself just cannot go back to not believing. It’s there now and I genuinely don’t believe anything will take that away. Even when I am at my most sad and angry.

All I can say, which I have said before on other threads, is to ask you to imagine living in a world with no evil. No suffering. No pain. Initially I imagine it to be a lovely world where everyone gets along. Then when I think about it more, I start to imagine what it would be like to never feel emotions such as the relief when something potentially terrible works it’s way out. Or what it feels like to have hope in the face of adversity.

Some of our strongest emotions comes from experiencing suffering. How could we ever experience true joy, if we never have anything to compare it to? How could we be compassionate if there is no need for there to be compassion?

So I ask myself, would a world with no suffering really be the wonderful place it’s so easy to imagine it would be? When the very reason we can even imagine such a place is because of suffering in the first place? I imagine we people in this world with no suffering to be shells of what makes us human, the good and the bad.

@Paska

That sounds like it'd lead to a healthy relationship...

Say if someone's born blind, maybe in a past life they through acid in someone eyes and blinded them. Btw this could go back to the Egyptian ages even.

@priya38 That is incredibly fucked up.

not one person can say God doesn't exist when there is no proof

The burden of proof doesn't lie with the person who says something didn't happen/doesn't exist. It's with the person who claims it did/does.

Not that I think anyone has to prove their religion but you're the one talking about proof.

You have the patience of a saint @backseatcookers :) but I think that those who are going to understand your argument may already have understood it. Some of these posts are making me exclaim the name of the deity I don't believe in. Now that is irony!

Ha I know you're right. I am an atheist through and through but I feel sad when people who are religious do other religious people a disservice by being negative and judgemental in a nasty and superior way.

My mum is religious and she's absolutely lovely - such a lovely person, non judgemental, kind.

People like a PP who has been so unkind and negative are a huge part of the reason people like mum get a hard time about religion.

The PP I've tried to get through to without losing my temper doesn't want to be kind she just wants to be 'right'. Can't be a nice way to engage with the world but hey ho.

Saint Backseat sounds all kinds of wrong so I'll go with Saint Cookers

Op, maybe its not God? Maybe its evangelicalism? Or your faith tradition? I know that I have been going through a process of letting go of certain things that when I was younger I held to be 'true' but I don't anymore. Anyway there are some writing about it and it comes under
ex-vangelical.

Regarding Maddie, its so sad. I have prayed and prayed over the years for there to be some resolution for her family and for it not to be just left open-ended. How else is there to pray now but? - God - its just horrific. I didn't want it to be like that...(and then cry).

I clasp on to that this is not the end, this life is not arbitrary and there will be justice - and I can't find my way there without God to ascribe it to.

Sorry I have not read through the thread. Theologians and people down through the ages have wrestled with the question if a supposed God of love exists how can suffering happen. There are no easy answers to that. The Christian message is although we have no answers God did enter into suffering through Jesus and his death on the cross and he promises to be with us in times of deep suffering if we reach out to God. We are also called to love and support each other here on earth, although that is not as easy as it sounds often.

Christians also claim that the world as it is, though full of wonder, beauty and love, also has a lot of damage. It is not what it should be and one day God will restore the earth to how it was intended. This might not be a satisfactory answer for you but I just wanted to share these are the claims. It’s enough for me. The alternative that there is no redemption and we are just matter that live out our years some with untold suffering and die doesn’t satisfy me. However, that is not to say I don’t have doubts and my faith can be indeed as small as a mustard seed at times and much firmer other times.

Can I just say as an atheist there have been so many lovely and thoughtful people of faith on this thread. I know some have not been but thank you to those who have been

Thank you @backseatcookers. It's really lovely to be on a faith thread where some people are kind to one another and don't accuse one another of being a/nasty old atheists and b/deluded thick Christians. I love it when we can talk together about this stuff while retaining some compassion and care for feelings and without point-scoring on how scathing we can make our arguments.

@Guylan good post - agree entirely :)

As I said upthread, we shouldn't need to make arguments against the existence of something when there is not and never had been a single shred of evidence for the existence of that thing. Yet we do, because so many people prefer to abandon all logic and choose one of the multiple fantasies to have faith in. This kind of unsubstantiated belief in anything else would be seen as regarding psychiatric attention.

Requiring

I'm with you, OP, and have been for a long time.

As the wonderful and sadly, late, Christopher Hitchens wrote in his (must read) book, 'God is Not Great',

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”