I don’t think I believe in “God” anymore

[anonymous1120]

I feel really low today, my trigger was reading an online story about how Madeline’s body might be found in a few days as police think it’s 30 mins from hotel in a well. I’m sorry I stopped reading so details might not be fully accurate. My eldest daughter has just turned 4 and it’s really upset me thinking what Maddie might have gone through in her last moments.

I know some people will respond negatively to me and hence the name change. I’m really struggling to think how can God really exist and let awful and evil things happen all the time. My faith has really been tested over the years and I do not believe in God anymore.

He tries to get into theological arguments without really understanding them. I think his questions are interesting and should be asked and addressed but I take issue with his aggressive stance and ineloquence of thought. Plus his overt misogyny and ableism.

I think his demeanour is more down to the fact that he's quite obviously autistic. I'm more or less the same myself. Get carried away with a fascinating topic and not realise that you've overstepped the mark and are just antagonising people.

I don't think he's abrasive out of nastiness, he just sees certain things in simple yes/no terms and argues them in the same manner. To be honest, I'd appreciate people doing the same with me, because I'm concerned with logic first and foremost, but that doesn't mean nuance and more esoteric subjects are lost on me either.

And yes, I agree his remarks about disability/genetics/eugenics are insensitive to say the least, but as I said, I don't honestly think that stems from a place of hate or a deliberate insensitivity. He's the same 'sort' of autistic as me. Ask a straightforward question, and you'll get a dispassionate answer, although I'd argue that I'm a bit more attuned to what constitutes an overtly offensive reply than he is.

God has given human beings a choice to choose between right and wrong. People get their karma for choosing to do wrong.

That's the thing though, as many of us have pointed out - many many many good people including babies and children have terrible things happen to them, are you really saying those things are due to karma for them 'choosing to do wrong'?

Sorry that was in response to @faithfulbird

@backseatcookers

No not at all. I meant people who do evil things. The monsters that hurt others get their own karma I.e are emotionally tormented till the end. How can babies, children and innocent people get karma. It's the actions of evil human beings that make the innocent suffer. What happens to evil people depends on your beliefs. I personally believe that they'll get their punishment after death. Good people will be rewarded. Babies, children and innocent people will be rewarded more. God doesn't forgive evil people easily and doesn't makes a decision on his own. He'll call out those that suffered by the actions of others and ask them whether they forgive or not...then punish the perpetrators accordingly.

Thanks for clarifying @faithfulbird

I think stuff like this shows that people of faith have a responsibility to be thoughtful and careful about the way they express an opinion about things like karma. You originally said:

God has given human beings a choice to choose between right and wrong. People get their karma for choosing to do wrong.

So it sounds very black and white - bad things happen because you've made bad choices and it's a punishment.

Not being snarky (I've tried to be open minded and patient on this thread) but just explaining how that sort of comment comes across to people, particularly people who don't share your choice to have a faith.

As I also said upthread I don't understand why god is absolved of the responsibility for bad things happening to good people, then credited with being their reward afterwards / when they die. To people who don't believe it feels nonsensical but I appreciate you feel differently.

Hope that all made sense, it's late and I'm tired!

"It is well known that the probability of life ever existing in the first place is beyond tiny, yet here we are. Scientists are still throwing out many different complex theories on how life began with such infinitely tiny odds. What is the simplest answer?"

If you imagine a pool and the chances of molecules in that pool combining then the odds are small that it will happen first time. However you can picture a planet covered in pools and millions of years.

With six dice it's hard to throw six sixes, but if you keep throwing them it become inevitable that you will hit it eventually.

In other words, trying to use human reason and logic to understand God and why He allows things to happen that He does, is just not going to work.

So that proposes a being who apparently wants human beings to worship him but is not going to make any effort to make his actions - or failures to act - rational and logical. And thousands of human beings are prepared to go along with it. That's just bizarre.

Which part?

I don't know how many locations like this there are, but you might think a well so near the hotel would have been searched before.

@FithColumnist was that really necessary?

@Nofunkingworriesmate
It's funny I never once heard a religious person bring negative about non believers, not once never, not a word in 50 years of church going but I hear lots of atheists making prejudiced comments

Utter nonsense. I could name countless prominent ‘Christians’ who have slated atheists. Pope John Paul II criticised a “spreading ‘practical atheism’ as clouding the ‘religious and moral sense of the human heart’ and leading to societies which struggle to maintain harmony". The Archbishop of Westminster described a lack of faith as "the greatest of evils" and blamed atheism for war and destruction, implying that it was a "greater evil even than sin itself"

Even the bible criticises non believers by stating: "The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good" (Psalm 14:1) !!!

those that believe will tell you that such things are man-made and a test of faith. yet if god made man in his own image, then he's a seriously sick entity. I am as you may have guessed, an atheist. Mostly because I have a science background, but increasingly, the behaviour of people in the name of religion is disgusting, and those that do purport to be Christians (or of other faiths) are generally the most hypocritical and intolerant

religion was invented to keep society from going totally feral. If you are a starving middle ages peasant, killing the chap next door and stealing all his food to feed your family might look a possible option. In a world with no law enforcement, indoctrination with the fear of an eternity burning in hell was a way to reduce the incidence of this.

similarly with sex outside marriage - in a world without contraception, men wanted to know that the child they were working hard to feed was actually theirs. Children were needed to look after their parents, so homosexuals who would not have children were bad. Limitations on eating pig meat are a good idea in a hot country with no refrigeration. And so on.

it isn't in human nature to be nice to each other when times are hard. Hence religion, a concept of punishment and reward.

religion was invented to keep society from going totally feral. If you are a starving middle ages peasant, killing the chap next door and stealing all his food to feed your family might look a possible option. In a world with no law enforcement, indoctrination with the fear of an eternity burning in hell was a way to reduce the incidence of this

@mencken

This with bells on! If you have people terrified enough they’ll confirm- but like coronavirus 😳

bit like I mean

I guess sometimes it is hard to imagine some things which are possible - because we as humans are limited in our experience.

Can a square be a circle? I cannot think of a way, but perhaps there is. Is a light a particle or a wave? I would have thought these were mutually exclusive (though I’m not a physicist).

People in ancient times might have thought it pure fantasy to go to the moon or fly several thousand meters above the earth or speak to someone miles away. But these are all things we do normally nowadays.

I hope that a similar kind of thing is true of suffering. Perhaps a beyond-life perspective may answer some of these? Though to atheists I know it sounds like a cop out. Peace be with you all.

@Nofunkingworriesmate

It's funny I never once heard a religious person bring negative about non believers, not once never, not a word in 50 years of church going but I hear lots of atheists making prejudiced comments

Oh, I've heard plenty,

@Nofunkingworriesmate

It's funny I never once heard a religious person bring negative about non believers, not once never, not a word in 50 years of church going but I hear lots of atheists making prejudiced comments

Believers used to torture us to death. They still do in some countries. Until not long ago disagreeing with your god was a criminal offence in the UK.

Did you not get taught in church that your god is going to burn us non-believers for eternity? That's pretty negative.

Look around and you will find non-believers described as filthy followers of satan etc in sermons.

And that's just from the priests. If you want to see negative comments from Christians in general just google atheist scum.

It's funny I never once heard a religious person bring negative about non believers, not once never, not a word in 50 years of church going but I hear lots of atheists making prejudiced comments

What a load of rubbish.

I used to believe. I was part of a church. They were the most hypocritical, judgemental, unkind bunch of people I ever met.

It was all 'love thy neighbour' until that neighbour actually needed help with something. They never ever practiced what they preached, it was all for show, 'look how nice we are'. The minute my faith wobbled after going through a really horrid time with pregnancy loss and other various things, they wanted nothing to do with it.

I don't believe anymore, I reached the conclusion that there is no answer that satisfies me enough to believe in this benevolent being who lets horrible things happen to his 'children'. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he isn't there at all. It makes it much easier to bear imo.

But even if I did still have faith I can tell you that I'd never step foot in a church again. The people I thought were my family, my friends, that would be there for me through the darkest times and help me get through, turned their backs and didn't want to know. They didn't want to know because I was asking hard questions. They were the absolute fakest people I've ever met, it's all a charade to make themselves look good. When things actually get tough and they need to put what they say into practice, they'd scarper quicker than a rat down a drain pipe.

And they may not have directly said anything about me as a non believer. But that was part of it. They didn't say anything at all. They didn't see how I was, they didn't visit me, they didn't check on me. They crossed the street from me in public so they didn't have to face the awkwardness they created.

That is not Christian.

I have met far far more kind, caring and compassionate atheists than I have people of faith. And it feels good knowing there isn't some fake agenda behind the kindness too. They aren't being kind because they want to get into heaven and receive a pat on the back from God. They are just nice, kind people.

@cabbageking

Worst fears for many parents is their child being taken. But this is the work of a man not god. Man is the cause of the world's problems, be it greed, murder, hate, cruelty, war etc. Then we have nature, earth quakes, droughts, floods, disease. None of these are God's actions. He will not intervene because man has decided he can do a better job than God. God let's him get on with it. Will God intervene at a time of his chosing? This depends on your belief. But according to the bible, the state of the world is not God's doing. Sometimes it is difficult to have faith but we tend to search or question God when things go wrong instead of perhaps when things are going well?

God: Not my circus, not my monkeys

Human: What? They literally are your monkeys

God:

[Tsunami hits]