... to wonder why some people think there's no white privilege?

[IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme]

Of course there is. Why do people correlate white privilege with economic opportunities and financial status?

Privilege is the same thing as 'Advantage'.

A white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a black person and or person of ethnic minority.

A poor white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor black/BAME person.

A rich white person is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a rich black/BAME person.

A white person with disabilities or poor mental health is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a BAME person with the same condition.

Having white privilege doesn't mean you have no other problems in life neither does it mean you're financially comfortable, it means your skin colour isn't one of your problems. It's not something you're conscious of.

My answer is this is why I've written "generally". Meaning, generally speaking a white person doesn't have to think about their whiteness in the world. Yes there are exceptions to every rule. You may be one...just like not every black person experiences (overt) racism but the majority do.

White privilege is similar to:

Male privilege. A man is generally more privileged (at an advantage) than a woman in many ways. It's a man's world for now.

Able-bodied privilege. An able bodied person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a person with a disability. It's an able bodied person's world (for now).

Financial privilege. A rich person is more privileged (at an advantage) than a poor person. It's a rich person's world (for now).

Extrovert privilege. An extrovert is generally more privileged (at an advantage in society) than an Introvert. It's an extrovert's world.

Those with privilege just means society caters much more to them and others are trying to be heard or noticed as equals or gain the understanding, acceptance, provisions, etc that those privileged in their category have.
Some who are underprivileged (in whatever category) can and do face serious issues with safety, violence, etc.

A person can be both financially privileged and underprivileged as a woman or a BAME person. A person can have white privilege and also be underprivileged as a person with disabilities. There's plenty of privileges and lack of to go round.

When people say "I can't have white privilege because I've never noticed being treated differently"...that's the point. A privileged person almost never notices that advantage till they face the opposite disadvantage. Ever heard of a person born rich never realising how privileged they were till they faced hardship or witnessed other people's financial hardship? Or rich people sending their children to poorer places so they can experience a different lifestyle and value their privilege?

Sometimes, knowing that others are suffering is different from empathising with/feeling the effects of their suffering. The latter is what gets you to understand and accept the privilege you have.

Oh and lastly (a different point), being underprivileged in one or more areas doesn't automatically make you a good person. There are good and bad people in every category.

I've deliberately not mentioned my race, sex, ability, etc because it doesn't matter, my argument stands regardless.

What do you think?

Using your example, when you talk about BLM you are meaning black lives do matter and not the organisation.

No. You've misread again.

When I write BLM (capital letters), then I'm talking about the organisation Black (B) Lives (L) Matter (M).

What I use when saying that black lives do matter is by saying exactly that: black lives do matter (no capitalization, no initialism). That's how I've always seen it used everywhere else.

You keep referring to and talking about BLM (capital letters meaning the organisation) and what you don't like about them as if you're being forced to join them. You also keep talking about them as if you not liking them means you're not able to stand for the statement that black lives do matter.

You know you can agree with this statement without being a member of BLM right? You can agree with that statement and still have your questions or objections regarding the organisation BLM right?

You don't have to agree with that statement if you don't believe it (before you claim I'm forcing you to), I'm only saying you can do both at the same time if you want.

None of us know what frames of reference others are using

Also haven't seen anyone else having this problem but you.

You say you have health issues that prevent you from understanding some things, yet you act like you not understanding things that are perfectly clear to most, if not all, is some sort of anomaly and proves it doesn't fit.

Which is it?

People are using white privilege and racism interchangeably.

No. Only you see that. I suggest you re-read posts.

@IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme

Using your example, when you talk about BLM you are meaning black lives do matter and not the organisation.

No. You've misread again.

When I write BLM (capital letters), then I'm talking about the organisation Black (B) Lives (L) Matter (M).

What I use when saying that black lives do matter is by saying exactly that: black lives do matter (no capitalization, no initialism). That's how I've always seen it used everywhere else.

You keep referring to and talking about BLM (capital letters meaning the organisation) and what you don't like about them as if you're being forced to join them. You also keep talking about them as if you not liking them means you're not able to stand for the statement that black lives do matter.

You know you can agree with this statement without being a member of BLM right? You can agree with that statement and still have your questions or objections regarding the organisation BLM right?

You don't have to agree with that statement if you don't believe it (before you claim I'm forcing you to), I'm only saying you can do both at the same time if you want.

You might be talking about the organisation when using BLM but others aren't. Some people say they didn't even realise there is an organisation called BLM, others know that there is but don't realise exactly what they stand for.

Last weekend there was a series of threads on here where the op kept demanding that people state whether they support BLM. I said that I am anti racist but that wasn't good enough.

The push right now is for everyone to public declare their support for BLM, protesters are asking people on the streets, police officers are asked - are we meant to discuss what each of us means before answering?

I support blm I don't support BLM. Even my phone automatically capitalises the initials.

@IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme

People are using white privilege and racism interchangeably.

No. Only you see that. I suggest you re-read posts.

The thread is about white privilege yet many people are talking about racism - how am I the only person seeing that?

@IAmAnAlienHumansfrightenme

None of us know what frames of reference others are using

Also haven't seen anyone else having this problem but you.

You say you have health issues that prevent you from understanding some things, yet you act like you not understanding things that are perfectly clear to most, if not all, is some sort of anomaly and proves it doesn't fit.

Which is it?

The thread is about white privilege.

Then posters are talking about white privilege and racism within the same posts as though white people can't suffer racism - which isn't true because some ethnos minorities are white yet suffer racism.

So, are we talking about white privilege on this thread or racism?

You might be talking about the organisation when using BLM but others aren't. Some people say they didn't even realise there is an organisation called BLM, others know that there is but don't realise exactly what they stand for.

Err...you just wrote this: Using your example, when you talk about BLM you are meaning black lives do matter and not the organisation.

Someone else talking about BLM is taking about the organisation

So which is it? In your experience are people talking about the organisation when writing BLM or are people confused when they see BLM? Or do you have two different experiences of the same issue?

So which is it? In your experience are people talking about the organisation when writing BLM or are people confused when they see BLM? Or do you have two different experiences of the same issue?

All of the above.

Looking at social media lots of people include #BLM - what are they referring too?

There have been many threads on here. People talking about BLM and then someone mentions the organisation with some posters then enquiring about what is the organisation/they didn't realise there was one, so presumably they had actually been talking blm rather than BLM, which is what they were writing.

So, as I said, it's all of the scenarios you mention.

Last weekend there was a series of threads on here where the op kept demanding that people state whether they support BLM. I said that I am anti racist but that wasn't good enough

The push right now is for everyone to public declare their support for BLM, protesters are asking people on the streets, police officers are asked - are we meant to discuss what each of us means before answering?

I support blm I don't support BLM. Even my phone automatically capitalises the initials

No one has said it here. As I mentioned earlier, I take what is being said where it's being said.

@Linning and other PP have written extensively about so many things here including but not limited to racism, feel free to read those if you want. @Lining's last post (I think) outlined what you could do, because you asked (not because you were being forced ) and encompassed different areas of life, no where there does it mention "join/support BLM".

Whatever has happened on other threads is on those threads. I don't have answers for them here. I haven't seen them.

There have been many threads on here. People talking about BLM and then someone mentions the organisation with some posters then enquiring about what is the organisation/they didn't realise there was one, so presumably they had actually been talking blm rather than BLM, which is what they were writing

Right! So you're saying those who use it differently (or incorrectly, if it is) are those who don't know much about it?

Well when they come across the difference at some point, then they know and education occurs. Hardly a big deal.

What's the point? That people are shamed for not using it correctly? That those who use BLM wouldn't use it if they know it's the organisation? I don't understand what your point is though as you seem to keep bringing up the happenings on other threads and I forget where you're going with it.

I still will say again, it's not happening here. Support BLM, don't support BLM, it's your choice. So...

What's the point? That people are shamed for not using it correctly? That those who use BLM wouldn't use it if they know it's the organisation? I don't understand what your point is though as you seem to keep bringing up the happenings on other threads and I forget where you're going with it.

My point is if people are using the same word (or initials in this case) to talk about two different things, but with neither knowing, that conversations are at cross purposes.

So, I was saying that I don't agree with much of what BLM stands for. I was talking about the organisation, using the initials in the correct way and context.

The op on the thread then accused me of being a racist and white supremacist because, as it transpired, they were using BLM to basically mean ant racist actions.

As for linnings list - none of that applied to white privilege. It was about inequality and discrimination rather than white privilege.

In the UK BLM is different from BLM US and there are 3 limited companies in the UK with BLM in their title and the Go fund me page is none of them and no one knows where UK donations go as no registered charity or company apparently. - although we know in the UK is UK BLM want no prisons, no police and no capitalism (and no racism or rather no discrimination against blacks - they might well support discrimination against whites i suppose)

So I see it's a case of misunderstanding each other then. You meant something else and the OP meant something else. It happens. Perhaps now you know from your experience that this could happen, when someone writes BLM, you could ask them which they mean first before responding, so you're on the same page.

As for linnings list - none of that applied to white privilege. It was about inequality and discrimination rather than white privilege

There's hardly anything you can do about white privilege or any privilege in and of itself except well...ceasing to exist. That won't help anyone though, would it?

You're not wrong for being white anymore than someone is wrong for being able bodied. You didn't ask for it. But anyone can do something with (not about) their privilege if they want.

@Linning's post is apt regarding what one can do with their privilege (not just white privilege). It is about fighting inequality and discrimination.

But you said you already do all that, well then good on you. Well done. Just carry on doing it and the rest of us will catch up. I don't think anyone is asking for anything more from you.

So I see it's a case of misunderstanding each other then. You meant something else and the OP meant something else. It happens. Perhaps now you know from your experience that this could happen, when someone writes BLM, you could ask them which they mean first before responding, so you're on the same page.

Yes, I can if I'm having a conversation with someone. I can't however if it's say a # on a page, or, as I saw on SM a few days ago, protesters at the side of the road with a sign saying "honk if you support BLM". One car drove past and got stopped at a red light where the protesters then attacked the car. No idea if they were talking about BLM or blm.

Is it about colour or culture?

As a white person I’d expect to feel neither privileged or unprivileged by living in my native culture but if I moved to Asia, for example, would I then be treated differently and overlooked when it came to getting work if they had a choice between me and someone native to their culture?

Of course there are several generations of various races in this country and in my personal experience it’s very obvious who is ‘British’ whatever skin colour they have and I rarely see any discrimination towards those people.

As for linnings list - none of that applied to white privilege. It was about inequality and discrimination rather than white privilege

Acknowledging dominant class privilege is the first step to dong anything about oppression. White privilege will always exist as long as structural racism does, so its the racism that has to be eliminated, and this can be facilitated by an understanding of white privilege.

And I agree with you Hearhooves about the problematic conflation between racism and white privilege - when I read UninventiveUsername's post I did wonder whether they'd posted on the wrong thread, until others indicated that they'd understood it (at which point I was overcome by deja vu..).

@mummmy2017

Sorry been out all morning. What I was trying to point out is that each country has their own version of privilege . Every country has an under class. While BLM is saying the B part are the ones who feel oppressed. I am sure there are people in India who feel the same way. Not allowed on buses, refused jobs, not allowed to inter marry. In Saudia it is the women who were oppressed. There is not one country in this world where each and every person is equal. No it is not fair, no it is not just, but I didn't know how you change it, I do know that violence is not the answer.

But that’s not news, and that’s also not accurate, nobody has ever pretended that the rest of the world was equal and that there was no other form of oppression nor that black people are the ONLY oppressed people.

The type of oppressions you mentioned aren’t even country based, they are world wide problems Racism is a world wide issue as is Sexism, Religious Extremism, Xenophobia, Homophobia, Antisemitism, Political extremism etc...

You do not have to step outside of your own country to find all those type of issues.

So no, it’s not that each country have their own version of privileges, we all have the same versions, it’s just that there is different forms of being privileged and ALL of us, me included, have access to different privileges.

Every men in the UK experience Male privileges
Every non-disable person benefits from not being limited by a disability
Every straight person benefits from not being discriminated against for their sexuality
Every White person benefits from not being discriminated for their race on a systemic level.
Every wealthy person benefits from their economical status.

We all have privileges, some of us have several of them, others few. What you can’t do is use other form of oppression (Sexism, homophobia, Xenophobia etc...) to undermine Racism and how bad it is.

EVERY form of oppression is bad and needs tackling, they are ALL equally important and need to be tackled with the same severity but putting them against each other to (try and) discredit others isn‘t the way to go.

All the things you have mentioned are problematic and need dealing with but they are worldwide issues that are different to racism and stems from different roots and require a different cure and aren’t applicable to white privileges and therefore don’t belong on a thread where we are discussing a specific type of privileges.

@woodhill

Seriously though Linning have you lived in the UK?

Plus the idea of dismantling nuclear family, what's that going to achieve?

Aren't some of the family structures part of the problem in the first place?

I could answer that question but fail to see the relevancy.

The thread is about white privileges, white privileges doesn’t just apply to the UK they are a worldwide thing, the UK isn‘t just one country either so the same way it would be complicated to talk about Sexism in the UK by making a blanket Generalist statement (due to the abortion debate in Northern Ireland for example), you can’t make blanket statements about how White privileges translate within the entire UK as plenty of factor affect that, how diverse the population is, and how diverse the local Government is, being one (which statistically is not the same amount throughout the entire UK).

As for the Nuclear family, you are asking as if I have said anywhere that I was in support or even brought it up. I have never said anything about the Nuclear family and dismantling it, and if you are going to mention BLM (the organization) and/or other black people in favor of the dismantlement of nuclear families, then I will re-direct you towards them to ask, it’s not because some people of color are in favor of specific actions that it’s something everyone Person of color agrees with and defend.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

What's the point? That people are shamed for not using it correctly? That those who use BLM wouldn't use it if they know it's the organisation? I don't understand what your point is though as you seem to keep bringing up the happenings on other threads and I forget where you're going with it.

My point is if people are using the same word (or initials in this case) to talk about two different things, but with neither knowing, that conversations are at cross purposes.

So, I was saying that I don't agree with much of what BLM stands for. I was talking about the organisation, using the initials in the correct way and context.

The op on the thread then accused me of being a racist and white supremacist because, as it transpired, they were using BLM to basically mean ant racist actions.

As for linnings list - none of that applied to white privilege. It was about inequality and discrimination rather than white privilege.

Yes it did. Check your privilege was number 1 on @linnings list. Somewhere there was understand your own bias.

@Tumbleweed101

Is it about colour or culture?

As a white person I’d expect to feel neither privileged or unprivileged by living in my native culture but if I moved to Asia, for example, would I then be treated differently and overlooked when it came to getting work if they had a choice between me and someone native to their culture?

Of course there are several generations of various races in this country and in my personal experience it’s very obvious who is ‘British’ whatever skin colour they have and I rarely see any discrimination towards those people.

Then you either aren’t listen or looking beyond your nose. Look at my posts on this thread to see my experiences of one of my friends who is mixed race and born here. From listening to her she experiences it everyday on the tube and has had to put up with racist abuse at work, from ridiculous to outright bullying (all swept under the carpet by HR). To being told by a mutual friend that the only reason she got her job was because of positive discrimination (she’s probably the smartest person I know and shit hot at her job). That is one friends experiences, that I know of, I bet she’s had more that she either doesn’t want to talk about or has dismissed.

Check your privilege was number 1 on @linnings list.

Which means what?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Check your privilege was number 1 on @linnings list.

Which means what?

Which means that, once again, everybody can tell everything you complain about on and claim has had no answers on repeat has indeed already been addressed but you.

If you actually don’t know what “check your privileges” means then google the concept. Google can be the friend that can answer the questions you have that have probably been answered on this thread already several times without you needing to ask us again a 1000 more times, derailing the thread.

Try it. You might love it.

And if you STILL don’t understand what “check your privileges” means well have got some news for you, turns out that’s exactly what this thread is about, “White privileges” the privileges you should keep yourself in check about it you are white. So read it, again and again and again, until you understand and grasp every post. You will be amazed at all the things you can learn from it once you bother to read it (properly) and grasp each and every answer.

What i originally said until you decided you know better what I think than I do @LonginesPrime
Using these sweeping comments can annoy people greatly however true YOU believe them to be

8Bluemoon, yes, technically what I meant by "white people" in that sentence was "white people who deny that structural racism exists".

But I figured that white people who acknowledge that structural racism exists won't be offended because they will understand the point, so the only white people who'd be offended by my generalisation would be the ones I was referring to anyway.

By being offended by what I wrote, you've self-selected into that group. The other white people will understand, so don't worry about them.

I'm not offended - I totally acknowledge white privelege and , my point is, don't make generalisations and sweeping statements about people if you want to get them on side. This is happening all over - people jumping up and down and demanding stuff and telling others they are wrong and must now do whatever it is the jumping up and downers want blah blah blah - just like you did by rewriting my original simple phrase, turning me into a racist and you into some blessed dogooder.

Telling fat people to eat less doesn't work, telling rich people to share their money doesn't work, telling businesses to employ more black people doesn't work, That's my point. You just piss people off.
People switch off and stop listening.
But you go ahead - keep banging your drum keep accusing people of their white privilege, keep switching their comments so you can accuse them of racism - just keep it up and make any changes in society take twice as long as they might have done without stirrers like you.

But you go ahead - keep banging your drum keep accusing people of their white privilege, keep switching their comments so you can accuse them of racism

I didn't accuse you of anything.

The fact that you describe white privilege as something one is 'accused' of possessing is revealing though.

Are you trying for an award in windupiness.
Sorry fail here.
Stick to the important agenda not your ability to score points.