My mum advised me to never get married or have kids

[Lowlandsea]

Throughout my life my Mum has advised me to never marry or have kids.
If I want an easy life then not to bother. Having kids isn't what it's cracked up to be. My life will be over, it's constant stress, I won't get any time to myself and it's expensive.
I have always liked the idea of having kids but because of her advice, I've always had that at the back of mind. I've always trusted her judgment, is she just looking out for me? She knows me well, we're very close, is she trying to stop me making a mistake?

I had two children with an unsuitable man (obviously I didn't know). Life has been a struggle. I have been in poverty. Its been a struggle. Would I change it? No. Would I have had a fulfilled life without them? Yes. I would have lived life to the full as ohthegoats has done. I've just accepted the hand I was dealt and now I'm out the other side I feel good about it.

Oh and its especially hard in lockdown obviously, but some days I don't even feel like a person. Just a machine who carries out a set of household tasks in order to facilitate everyone else's lives.

She doesnt want to share/lose you.....sounds controlling.

I think simply, if you have a maternal instinct and want children, you should have them. If you don't, don't. It will be a lot more difficult as it's already difficult when you do want them.

FWIW having children was the one single best thing I have ever ever done with my life. I'm happily married, successful career, nice house, travelled, secure future etc etc. I'd still forego any of that to have my children.

Well yes, in your position that seems completely reasonable. But it's a bit like anyone in particularly envious circumstances telling everyone how great things can and should be. It's not the real world.

Advising your dc to partner up with someone who does their share of 'wife work' fine - but that's about ensuring your children know their worth. Advising you not to have children, or do anything because it's hard - not fine. Not fine at all.

ALL women want equality. All women want to have happy equal relationships. It is clearly the case that not all men want this which leaves a significant shortage of men available for this to be possible. Every woman would be wise to consider those number before they choose marriage and children. In fact, if you tell your daughter that she should only settle down if she finds such a male, you are quite likely telling her not to marry.

You can look at any thread, or in fact, any of your friends' relationships and see how equal they are. All my female friends identify as feminist, one has an equal relationship. In fact, I'd go so far to say it's slightly biased towards him doing the majority of the wife work. ONE. I don't think I'm that unusual.

We as a society under values the work women do and overvalue what men do. You may see yourself as totally equal but if you really go through your relationship with a fine tooth comb you'd probably find you do the majority of the so-called wife work or organize it. Just because (and statists back this up) women normally do.

I'm happily married, successful career, nice house, travelled, secure future etc etc. I'd still forego any of that to have my children

Advising you not to have children, or do anything because it's hard - not fine. Not fine at all

Why shouldn't women offer advice based on their own life courses and experiences? Why should only women whose lives have been great, like yours, and who literally have everything - why should only those women have voices?

The arrogance of you!

Why shouldn't women offer advice based on their own life courses and experiences?

Because the message is that you shouldn't have children because it's hard. Advising that it's hard, stressful, extremely trying on your patience - again fine. But you have to balance that with the positive.

Are we really saying it's ok to raise a generation of kids not to do something because it's hard. Really?

Since when was an 'easy life' a life worth living? There is happiness and fulfilment in lots of things that are hard work - arguably more of it than in things that are easy. You are not your mother. What might have been right for her is not what is right for you. Follow your own instincts. Most people have children and most people would not change that for the world. It is not an unusual decision and, the odds are you would not regret it.

Well yes, in your position that seems completely reasonable. But it's a bit like anyone in particularly envious circumstances telling everyone how great things can and should be. It's not the real world.

Why on earth are parents assuming that their kids will be the ones that end up single benefit dependent parents living in the 14th floor of a hideous tower block. Why not encourage your kids to value themselves, demand the same from a partner, develop a work ethic so they have a good chance at happy successful lives, marriages and careers.

What formerbabe said about personality.

I grew up in a very loving household with parents who loved each other deeply and considered their marriage very happy. But looking at my mother, one thing I had taken for granted was that marriage would take a lot of effort because even the most decent man (which my father certainly is) gets on your nerves to the point where you can't help but lose your temper.

Now been married 28 years and it doesn't seem to have happened yet. Don't suppose dh is objectively any less annoying than my dad. I just don't have my mum's personality. What irritated her beyond endurance just doesn't affect me in the same way.

Otoh she was absolutely brilliant with young children. Patient, creative, instinctively understanding their point of view. Would be quite unsafe for anybody else to watch her and assume they could do the same without a massive effort.

What I found far more helpful than "you will hate it"/"you will love it" were little anecdotes illustrating the kind of typical thing a child might do (might only, because these referred to individual children not generalisations) at a certain stage of development. I didn't assume that all children blame their naughtiness on their imaginary playmates, but I knew my grandmother had, so I wasn't totally thrown when a child of mine did the same.

I'm hoping that when she's an adult I'll feel differently, but it's hard to know whether it's truly worth the sacrifice.

Mine are pretty much adults now so I guess (Hope) that I have the benefit of hindsight. Hopefully most people putting their kids off have small children and are just articulating the very short term stresses of lockdown with small kids.

I think that women who keep silent about how self-annihilating motherhood can be, are doing everyone a disservice. It just keeps the misery, confusion and guilt going on to the next generation. A good mother will tell the truth (if that is her truth).

It is brave, and doesn't mean she regretted you were born. She is saying that our culture lumps most of the responsibility on women, and give little or no support for a role that can steal your own life away.

Why on earth are parents assuming that their kids will be the ones that end up single benefit dependent parents living in the 14th floor of a hideous tower block. Why not encourage your kids to value themselves, demand the same from a partner, develop a work ethic so they have a good chance at happy successful lives, marriages and careers.

Because some of us aren't smug or stupid enough to assume that everyone with a good work ethic will do well in our society or that the single mother on benefits asked for it or put herself there with her own stupidity.

Our society functions because of those with a great work ethic at the bottom continue to work hard for little money and not great returns because it's what life has dealt them.

.

being a parent just looks like a miserable existence a lot of the time.

Not my experience.

OP my mum wouldn't have dreamt of 'telling' me not to have kids. She was honest about it (bloody hard sometimes, amazing at others etc) but both she and my dad were very much the kind of people to give advice only if asked. Mum would say 'I'll tell you what I think but I know you'll go ahead and do what you like anyway but just know that I'll be here for you regardless'.

Not everyone's story is the same.

We're also aware that just because we live in a western country where we currently have all the food we need and good medical care that these are not guaranteed. I would hate for my children to watch their children suffer food poverty due to climate change the way some mothers and fathers already do around the world.

I was unhappy in life until I met my husband and had kids. But my childhood was so bad, it would have been hard to have a worse experience as an adult. Nothing left to loose I guess.

My mother's only advice regarding children was don't have more than two. Funny thing every time she said it to one of us she looked like she actually thought about it a lot. She didn't do this with the rest of her advice.

Because the message is that you shouldn't have children because it's hard. Advising that it's hard, stressful, extremely trying on your patience - again fine. But you have to balance that with the positive

So basically you are telling people that they shouldn't give their own accounts - because you don't agree with what they are saying.

People are entitled to their own views on whether the cost of something is worth what you gain from it. And they are entitled to express things as they wish. You create the arguments you want, and they can create the arguments they want.

And misrepresenting what people are saying as 'hard', like its just like learning algebra or training for a 10k, is dishonest. There are women here clearly talking about something far more life shattering than being 'hard'.

Just accept that some women have different opinions from you and accept that people are allowed, in a democratic society, to express views you don't like or agree with, or which don't reflect your life course.

Or are you not able to do that because its too 'hard'?

Obviously her experience of marriage hasn't been good.

I follow her line of thinking and am quite happy. I have a life full of freedom and relaxation.

But if you meet someone and feel you will be happy with them then you can always reconsider.

I don’t identify with what your mother and others are saying at all. Yes, being a parent can be hard but for me the love and joy outweighs that x a million. It’s hard but not in an ‘oh my God I’ve made a terrible mistake’ kind of way, but in a challenging and growing kind of way.
I don’t feel I’ve made sacrifices because my children outweigh anything else I could possibly have in life.

Only you know how you feel about your life choices, OP.

And I don’t think it’s ok for your mother to say this either.

Nobody can answer this question re kids except for themselves. It’s fine for your mum to say she found it hard and to say she wishes she’d made other choices but telling you not to do it is a bit hmmmm.

What @formerbabe said - my identify is nowhere, but otoh when your children are under teens you are everything to them, you have to be able to get happiness from others depending on you.

I have always liked the idea of having kids but because of her advice, I've always had that at the back of mind

I think most people go into parenthood knowing it's not going to be easy- but maybe usually it is even harder than they expect. You don't tend to hear anyone go 'oh, this is a lot easier than I thought!'

If you feel like how you're thinking is impairing your life, I suppose you could have therapy to try and undo the effect of what she's told you.

I think your mum has a very valid point and, as long as she's offering it as a "If I had my time again, I wouldn't have - but obviously I would have had you", thing then take it in the spirit offered.

This site is like a cautionary tale of what happens when women marry. I certainly won't be pushing for my kids to marry or have children. If they do then they have our absolute support.

I wouldn't have married if I'd thought a bit more about it and actually, I don't think marriage is ever good for any woman but, that's just my personal opinion.

As long as your mum is supportive of you and understands that her circumstances don't transpose onto yours, that's fine.

Do you lead an independent life OP?

I’m saying this as I grew up listening to my mum saying similar.
The difference being her and DF had a bit of a love/hate relationship.
I think I was earmarked for her fireside companion in old age, so maybe not the same situation?

If you meet the right man you can decide what your future holds together.

Your DM may think she’s coming from a kind place but her life experiences are her own.