AIBU by not being convinced about moving to Ireland?

[Shedbuilder]

My partner's grandparents were born in Ireland and so she's been able to obtain an Irish passport. I'm English. We're very pro-EU and horrified by Brexit and we hate the current government and direction the UK is taking. We're wondering about putting our money where our mouths are and moving to Ireland. Our parents are all dead, we don't have children, we're on good terms, but not particularly close, to our siblings and their families. We'd plan to come back and visit friends and family in the UK several times a year and we've factored in the cost of doing that.

It would suit my partner well. She's very gregarious, she has the blarney and she also has some family over there already. I wouldn't know anyone. I also worry about what it would be like to be noticeably English in Ireland. I'm not at all posh but I sound a bit Radio 4.

I'm concerned that my partner has some pretty romantic ideas about Ireland. She expects it to be so much better than England. She's just been ranting at the far righters Nazi-saluting at the cenotaph and saying proudly that it wouldn't happen in Ireland. I made the mistake of replying no, it wouldn't happen in Ireland because Ireland stayed neutral during WW2 and then for years persecuted and scapegoated the Irish men and women who volunteered to fight Hitler. That didn't go down well.

The area we would be looking at is probably somewhere within a five-mile radius of Enniscorthy and within relatively easy reach of Wexford and Dublin. Also close to the Rosslare ferry and the coast. The property in that area seems excellent value for money: currently looking at a spacious 4-year-old four-bedroom house on an acre, well away from neighbours, and with a separate double garage and a barn for under £300,000.

We know we'll have to have private medical insurance. We know that we'll have a lot of learning to do and that the chances are I'll be an outsider for the rest of my life. As a lesbian I'm used to that. I'm also aware that Ireland has its own issues around transgender and women's rights, but they seem no worse than they are here.

So tell me, would you move to Ireland if you could?

Oh, OP. This is a bad start.

Why did you want to get a dig in at your partner with the war comment? You know she loves Ireland... It seems unnecessarily hurtful. Do you have a war on where she loves Ireland and you slag it off? And you've repeated it here, knowing that there could be people who share your partner's response. I get the impression you want to see if you can go on being you in Ireland, digs and all. Well, you can't. Ireland is the last place you want to try doing that.

If you're open and straightforward you're fine, but you'll have to change the tone. They might put up with you as a tourist but who would want to make friends with someone with an axe to grind, as you clearly have? I don't think this is about Ireland at all, I think it's about you not wanting to move. You also speak to Mumsnet as if it's English and you're discussing a move to a slightly backward colony, when many people here are from Ireland. Tip-don't say anything negative about a country you're not from and expect the natives to overlook it. If you go there and behave like this, I'm predict it will go badly and you will put it down to anti-English sentiment when the problem was rudeness on your part.

I would never call any people, anywhere, backwards.

Yup, rugby is a great way of getting to know people. I was in New Zealand in November 2018, staying with friends, when Ireland beat the All Blacks. That was a day to remember.

Oh, for heaven’s sake, no Irish person on here is implying that Ireland is in any way ‘perfect’ or hostile to well-founded criticism by well-informed people who’ve spent considerable time here. Hostile to stereotyping and dopey generalisations? Absolutely.

And if you want to get into entrenched unpleasant attitudes to people from a neighbouring country, I could list countless incidents from my 20 years as an Irish person in England, ranging from total bafflement that I was at Oxford to accusations of being in the IRA. It got so much more frequent in the last few years that I left.

@Spanish my parents are Irish living in England. We had the Police at our door due to my gregarious sister chatting to people in the pub. I think they thought we were IRA too.
I too have experienced lots of racism towards the Irish. The whole thick stereo typical rubish.
My parents faced alot of prejudice in the early days and it hurt.
I used to visit Ireland regularly as a child and as an adult and have always been made welcome but I do still have family over there.
You have mentioned some lovely places. ILove County Wexford and County Wicklow but Cork is a lovely County too.
I always have romatic notions of settling in Ireland but my kids are too old now.

I am irish. I lived there for 26 years and only moved here 4 years ago. Ireland is a very friendly country, enniscorthy is a lovely area. However general costs of living in ireland are quite high. Food shop, electricity, petrol, everyday items, eating out, days out, all very expensive. The government are hopeless normally. Recissions are very normal, and I wanted economy crippling recessions, not like the UK where some high street stores close. I mean banks collapsing, people losing houses, jobs disappearing recession. Education is great but not free at all (you buy all books, expensive uniforms, very old methods of teaching) so you would have to think of that if you planned on kids. University education is also very expensive and we dont have student loans (I paid 12k for my masters out if my own money). Also, rural areas, which is anything outside dublin, always and cork, are very badly resourced, so bad internet, electricity outages are common, bad roads, no public transport at all (you will struggle to get a taxi on a Saturday unless you are related to the taxi man).

If you have very secure and well paid jobs, it can work. But Ireland is far from idyllic. It can be a very tough country to have a decent life in (hence why I am here). Do lots of research. It may not be better than the uk for standard of living.

Sorry to hear it, @Northernsoulgirl45 — some of it’s just microaggressions, obviously, but they add up over time, or you get blindsided with it from someone you wouldn’t expect to be so xenophobic.

@SqidgeBum, I lived for my first 25 years in Ireland, then 20 in England, then back to Ireland. Yes, it’s expensive, and rural public transport is pretty sporadic. However, Ireland doesn’t have student loans because most undergraduate education at public-funded institutions doesn’t involve paying fees. (My UK undergraduates — I’m an academic — were paying £9,000 a year in comparison.) My son is at a uniform-free Educate Together where you buy most books cheaply from the year above. And Boris and co and their handling of coronavirus make the current Irish caretaker government look pretty good, I must say.

No, Ireland is no idyll, but no one with two brain cells would claim that of anywhere.

Thank you @Spanishcove

Recissions are very normal, and I wanted economy crippling recessions, not like the UK where some high street stores close. I mean banks collapsing, people losing houses, jobs disappearing recession.

Really? I'm 55. I recall only one recession with banks "collapsing". None of the banks actually collapsed due to the bailout.

There was a deep recession in the 80's. Then we had the Celtic Tiger from earlyish 90's to 2008, with the bank bailout in 2010. Ireland was not alone in recession in this period either. Since 2014 the economy has been on the up.

Also, rural areas, which is anything outside dublin, always and cork, are very badly resourced, so bad internet, electricity outages are common, bad roads, no public transport at all (you will struggle to get a taxi on a Saturday unless you are related to the taxi man).

That is nonsense. Quite aside from the fact you have ignored Limerick, which is a pretty big city, rural areas vary hugely. I live rurally, as in I can see cows from my bedroom window, rurally. We have fibre broadband. The only time we have electricity outages is occasionally during serious storms so once every few years. We have pretty crap public transport though. There is a bus every hour to the nearest city unit 8pm, although we can get a bus from the city to the next village every half hour up until midnight.

University education is also very expensive and we dont have student loans (I paid 12k for my masters out if my own money).

University is much cheaper than England. €3000 for undergraduate although masters are ridiculous. €12k is presumably Dublin. Galway, Cork and Limerick are cheaper but the cost does depend on the course so from about €6k up.

@OchonAgusOchonO

Recissions are very normal, and I wanted economy crippling recessions, not like the UK where some high street stores close. I mean banks collapsing, people losing houses, jobs disappearing recession.

Really? I'm 55. I recall only one recession with banks "collapsing". None of the banks actually collapsed due to the bailout.

There was a deep recession in the 80's. Then we had the Celtic Tiger from earlyish 90's to 2008, with the bank bailout in 2010. Ireland was not alone in recession in this period either. Since 2014 the economy has been on the up.

Also, rural areas, which is anything outside dublin, always and cork, are very badly resourced, so bad internet, electricity outages are common, bad roads, no public transport at all (you will struggle to get a taxi on a Saturday unless you are related to the taxi man).

That is nonsense. Quite aside from the fact you have ignored Limerick, which is a pretty big city, rural areas vary hugely. I live rurally, as in I can see cows from my bedroom window, rurally. We have fibre broadband. The only time we have electricity outages is occasionally during serious storms so once every few years. We have pretty crap public transport though. There is a bus every hour to the nearest city unit 8pm, although we can get a bus from the city to the next village every half hour up until midnight.

University education is also very expensive and we dont have student loans (I paid 12k for my masters out if my own money).

University is much cheaper than England. €3000 for undergraduate although masters are ridiculous. €12k is presumably Dublin. Galway, Cork and Limerick are cheaper but the cost does depend on the course so from about €6k up.

I agree with everything @OchonAgusOchonO said.

Recissions are very normal, and I wanted economy crippling recessions, not like the UK where some high street stores close. I mean banks collapsing, people losing houses, jobs disappearing recession.

You're 30... you are recalling one recession. One.

I also disagree with a lot of what @SqidgeBum said.

Paid €4K for my masters in UL - a pittance really! Best money I ever spent.

We'd move to Ireland in a second if I could get an Irish passport!!

I'm Scottish and so unhappy about being dragged into Brexit. Whatever the political to's and fro's, I'm not judging anyone for voting how they did that's their right, but I'd just love to be out of the whole Brexit / Tories thing altogether. It's rotten.

I have family in Ireland so I know a bit about how it is there.

You should give it a go with an open mind OP.

I gave up reading the whole thread once it turned into a bun fight but @Shedbuilder here's a few things to consider:

I live where you're considering a move to, though I'm nearer the coast than I am to Wexford. There are lots of English around here and nobody cares where anyone is from. Wexford is one of those places where people come on holidays. Some come back to stay and some never leave in the first place

Second please take on board what people have been saying about the war. The men who returned after fighting with the British Army were very badly treated. They were seen as having defected to the enemy because they joined the Army of the very people who had colonised them. A hundred years later it's still a very sensitive subject that needs careful handling.

I get what you're saying about the blarney/the gift of the gab etc but for your own sake and your wife's, we Irish think of that as pure Shamrockery. Don't mark yourself as outsiders. And that note, we don't care if you're gay or straight, single or married.

Now that that's all cleared up, hurry home, Wexford is waiting for you. Drop me a line if you need help with anything

OP, I haven't read the full thread but wanted to reply as my situation is pretty similar.

I have Irish grandparents and could get a passport; I got a job in Dublin a year ago. We're a lesbian couple.

We decided to try it commuting from the UK. I would never move to Ireland. Aside from the sky-high cost of housing around Dublin and the need for healthcare, I have found it a really frightening place to be gay. My workplace, which claims to be progressive, is incredibly old-fashioned -things I would not have expected to encounter in the 80s seem normal here.

The level of casual heterosexism bowls me over. So many people will assume you're straight. I had several colleagues who have heard me refer to my partner as 'she' or as my DD's 'mother' who still repeat back to me 'your husband'. I'm so sick of the default interaction with random men in the street being a 'hilarious' chat-up line or joke relating to my imaginary boyfriend/husband/desire for a boyfriend or husband.

I could go on ... but seriously, it's been such a shock. Obviously I may just have been unlucky and I won't pretend the UK is any great shakes (I am deeply ashamed of it right now). But I don't think Ireland is the place to go for a better life.

Good luck with whatever you decide OP.
Just a few things I would consider...
Have you ever been to Ireland? If not I think you should definitely spend a few weeks here before you make such an important decision.
Being gay would not be an issue for the vast majority of people.
Wexford is a lovely county, nice beaches etc
Cost of living here is higher than in the UK.
We do have public healthcare but a lot of people have private health insurance (shorter waiting lists, private hospitals etc) and I would recommend having it.
Life is more relaxed here than in the UK and things move at a slower pace. You might like this or it might frustrate you.
The education system is excellent, probably more child centred than the UK but parents have to pay for books, uniforms, provide packed lunches etc. It is a great place to bring up children if that is in the cards for you.
Weather is cooler and than London, similar to northern England. Winter can be cold and grey but very pretty and peaceful too. The west coast of Ireland would be much wetter.
People are friendly but can be cliquey. Do you have any hobbies? Joining a club would be a good way to meet people and make friends. Working for yourself at home, it might be hard to make friends.
Sport is big here, especially GAA.
I expect there are a similar number of introverts as the UK. We are not all chatty.
Being English should not be a problem. We know that almost half the UK population did not vote for Brexit. However I do feel there is more negativity towards the UK since the Brexit vote. Brexit will be very bad for our economy. There are also concerns about how covid has been handled in the UK.
You also do need to be aware of the history. Again we would not hold you personally responsible but if you show a lack of understanding you will find negativity.
I don't think anyone is going to say you would be mad not to move here, Ireland is not perfect, it has good and bad. It could work out to be a fantastic move for you or you might find it hard.
Good luck with whatever you decide, it's not an easy thing to move to a new country and you are right to think long and hard about it.

Most people are friendly OP. If your seriously considering it and your skills are transferable give it a shot. Is there any particular reason your DP wants to relocate she can apply for an Irish passport from the UK.

YANBU. My ex-husband was Irish and l am part Irish (entitled to an Irish passport). He tried a number of times to talk me into moving there but he always failed. Due to the weather (l live in the warmest / driest part of England which suits me), my work wouldn’t translate that well to over there, it’s expensive, l am a city girl, l don’t speak Gaelic (he wanted to go to a region that is gaeltacht) and l have no friends / family over there. It’s a relaxing part of the world and some lovely scenery which l like to visit but l couldn’t live there

No "other" country is perfect, doesn't matter which one it is. If you are seriously thinking of relocating you do have to inform yourself and build your own opinion in order to be able to make a decision. If you have such negative thoughts about your potential destination just don't do it. You have already expressed so much negativity in your posts how can you expect to be welcomed.And what on earth have WW2 veterans and the treatment of them to do with a potential move to Ireland in the 21st. century? P.S. Please don't come to Germany.

@whatshebininagain yep it’s a great film

I wouldn't live in Enniscorthy, its too small.
Wexford town would be better.

Also - the Irish economy is down the toilet again, now in the worst recession on record, so what are you going to do for income and work?
Its often hard to find a decent job in Ireland, outside of Dublin, even in the best of times.

As said above, Holland might be a better fit.

I’ve lived in Northern Ireland all my life, and I wouldn’t want to move to the south. As a whole I just find it quite grubby and less modern. I’m not saying NI is perfect whatsoever, because it’s not, and there’s only very specific areas I would ever want to live here. The rest is pretty shit.
I think that you have quite a rose tinted glasses view on the country OP. What on earth does having the blarney mean? Ireland isn’t all leprechauns and clovers as most visitors seem to think.

I’ve lived in Northern Ireland all my life, and I wouldn’t want to move to the south. As a whole I just find it quite grubby and less modern

As someone who knows both well, I find that hilarious. NI doesn’t exactly enjoy a great reputation outside of it.

OP, did you say your business is in construction? It is worth noting that construction is a very lucrative sector in ROI and there’s the potential to make a lot of money in it longer term.

@clipclop5

I’ve lived in Northern Ireland all my life, and I wouldn’t want to move to the south. As a whole I just find it quite grubby and less modern. I’m not saying NI is perfect whatsoever, because it’s not, and there’s only very specific areas I would ever want to live here. The rest is pretty shit. I think that you have quite a rose tinted glasses view on the country OP. What on earth does having the blarney mean? Ireland isn’t all leprechauns and clovers as most visitors seem to think.

Are you on something? I have lived in (NI) all my life and safely say, you’re talking shite. Ireland is a bloody brilliant, beautiful and modern country. I think your bigotry is showing.

Men in dress up, banging drums, burning the Irish flag on top of bonfires, insisting on their ‘right’ to march through areas they’re not wanted, playing anti catholic songs, in the name of culture and don’t get me started on those fecking flags, from both ‘sides’ hanging off lampposts until they turn into rags. Not to mention painting flag colours onto pavements, like dogs pissing to mark their spots. Ireland less modern? Catch a fecking grip!