AIBU by not being convinced about moving to Ireland?

[Shedbuilder]

My partner's grandparents were born in Ireland and so she's been able to obtain an Irish passport. I'm English. We're very pro-EU and horrified by Brexit and we hate the current government and direction the UK is taking. We're wondering about putting our money where our mouths are and moving to Ireland. Our parents are all dead, we don't have children, we're on good terms, but not particularly close, to our siblings and their families. We'd plan to come back and visit friends and family in the UK several times a year and we've factored in the cost of doing that.

It would suit my partner well. She's very gregarious, she has the blarney and she also has some family over there already. I wouldn't know anyone. I also worry about what it would be like to be noticeably English in Ireland. I'm not at all posh but I sound a bit Radio 4.

I'm concerned that my partner has some pretty romantic ideas about Ireland. She expects it to be so much better than England. She's just been ranting at the far righters Nazi-saluting at the cenotaph and saying proudly that it wouldn't happen in Ireland. I made the mistake of replying no, it wouldn't happen in Ireland because Ireland stayed neutral during WW2 and then for years persecuted and scapegoated the Irish men and women who volunteered to fight Hitler. That didn't go down well.

The area we would be looking at is probably somewhere within a five-mile radius of Enniscorthy and within relatively easy reach of Wexford and Dublin. Also close to the Rosslare ferry and the coast. The property in that area seems excellent value for money: currently looking at a spacious 4-year-old four-bedroom house on an acre, well away from neighbours, and with a separate double garage and a barn for under £300,000.

We know we'll have to have private medical insurance. We know that we'll have a lot of learning to do and that the chances are I'll be an outsider for the rest of my life. As a lesbian I'm used to that. I'm also aware that Ireland has its own issues around transgender and women's rights, but they seem no worse than they are here.

So tell me, would you move to Ireland if you could?

Oh with that attitude please stay where u are. You have no clue about Ireland

Vodkacranberryplease - I know quite a few teachers (and have met even more) and they are all very leftie Not in Ireland. Teaching is a well respected middle class career forgetting lefties or righties judging by accents and mannerisms there is 2 w.c if you like teachers DD's school out of 25. All the teacher's are lovely it is easy to tell the posh ones as it is a working class city area. Thing's are changing more w.c students are completing 3rd level education thanks to the supports and without the crippling student loans.

And this is why I won’t bring my English husband home to my own country, that I love.
Because some people see individual British people as the personification of the historical wrongs. And it’s hard to get past that. For either side.

Yep. As someone who has one English and one Irish parent I have definitely felt this. On the one hand I am made to feel like as an English person I (or my dad and his family) am somehow personally connected to all the shit that went on, and on the other side I'm made to feel like my family are a bunch of thicko alcoholics who are in the IRA. Not by everyone and not all the time, but it's definitely there.

I do agree the OPs opening posts sounded a bit goady though, and that perhaps Ireland isn't the place for her to settle!

@EmeraldShamrock leaving aside some of the more obvious (religious) school things I think Ireland has always had an excellent education system. My dad once made a crack to my mum about how she probably thought the Elgin Marbles were the sort we played with at school 😁.
My friend is paid reasonably, treated with respect and I just look at the UK state system and think how the fuck did we get here?
I'm getting cvs sent to me at the moment and am actually looking at them putting there instead of their and I wonder how is this possible??

At this point in time Ireland is superior to England in.... English! You couldn't make it up!

You don’t really get ‘lefties’ in Ireland the same way there are in the UK. The two biggest political parties are not left vs right. Traditionally it was divided down civil war lines, but that’s less of an influence now. There is a party for wealthy businesspeople, and a party for wealthy farmers. There is usually a coalition with at least one of those and smaller parties.

I didn't, LumLou: I'm still pretty locked down and I don't know what day it is most of the time. I'll check out the Bloomsday events, thanks for the links.

Sorry, managed to get your name wrong.

I really don't think the OP would like Ireland. OP - really seriously consider this move before you make it as you might find it miserable. At least spend 2 weeks in airbnb in your intended town before you even start to think about moving. A country move is not to be sneezed at.

I've moved countries when I was young and enthusiastic about the country of destination. To move reticently to somewhere because my partner wanted to, would leave me fucking miserable. I wouldn't do it now - in my youth I embraced new experiences, but now I'm too sure of what I know/financial concerns etc. I don't have the optimism of youth.

@LumaLou You don’t really get ‘lefties’ in Ireland the same way there are in the UK.

Jesus! Can't wait for the borders to open again I'm moving!

There was a crime documentary on tv a while ago set around Dublin (country/outer parts) and it was just SO beautiful. Really stunning.

I have been reluctant to get involved because I don't believe for one minute the OP has any intention of moving to Ireland or Germany either for that matter.

What I will say is the advice somebody once gave me when I was contemplating a move Down Under. Do not move anywhere unless you and your partner both really want to make the move. As soon as something goes wrong, one of you will accuse the other, of making you move to a country you didn't want to go to in the first place. In order to move successfully and happily, you both must want to move and be eager to overcome any obstacles. Otherwise there will be blame, guilt and an urgency to throw in the towel and return to where you left.

That aside, on the off chance, that you really are contemplating a move to Ireland, my advice would be to stay where you are. Your derisory tone will fail to remain hidden and you will be disliked in Ireland as a result.

@MrMorrisReturns
The men interviewed in that article had deserted from the Irish Army. They were blacklisted from public sector employment for seven years after the war and as deserters were subject to prosecution. This is because desertion is a significant transgression regardless of nationality. Only in 1930 was the death penalty for desertion from the British Armed forces abolished, after all. Just over 300 men were executed for desertion in WW1, and buried in 'dishonorable' sections of military cemeteries.

The penalties were a way of stating that an oath to serve a country was not negotiable according to your political sympathies, with the conduct of the Army and its veterans' organisation (the Blueshirts) in the 1930s as the background for the decisions made. They would have been treated similarly if they had deserted to fight with the Wehrmacht.

About 70,000 Irish people (taking birth in Ireland as the basis of Irish nationality) served in the British Armed Forces during WW2. The Irish government did nothing to stop these men and women from volunteering. They were not penalised upon their return.

By way of comparison, about 40,000 Irishmen joined the Irish Defense Forces during WW2, with about 150,000 in local defense.

@Shedbuilder

To fight the greatest fascist threat the world had seen? To prevent a genocidal regime that was sweeping through mainland Europe? That murdered millions?

There's never just the one perspective, is there?

Well there's irony...

Yes, of course there is more than one perspective. Developing a sense of perspective happens when you make the effort to read a little history. Lots has been written about Ireland and WW2. I strongly suggest you read a bit more than you appear to have read on the topic. A little reading is a strong antidote to any unfortunate tendencies to swallowing stereotypes and nationalist myths whole.

A sense of historical perspective would tell you that very little was known by ordinary Allied recruits or even officers about Nazi genocide until the allied forces began to uncover the camps late in the war. It would also tell you that this was not 'the greatest' but in fact the only fascist threat the world had seen. I am getting the impression that a firm grasp of historical fact is not your strong point.

The deserters had taken an oath to defend Ireland and their desertion weakened Ireland. It was weakened in terms of manpower availability, and in terms of German perception of morale in the Irish Army and perception of support in the Irish Army for the elected government.

During WW2 Allied desertion in the European theatre was enough of a problem that an argument was made for reinstatement of the death penalty in the British armed forces, but the interests of not tipping off the enemy to the problem were seen as more important than making examples of deserters (who caused mayhem in Italian and French cities and whose interference in Army supply lines to develop a thriving black market in liberated regions deprived their own troops of food and other necessities, btw).

As stated, about 70,000 Irish people volunteered to serve in the British Armed forces during WW2. Is that enough for you?

I would really love to know why you are so incredibly worked up about this.

...drivers are terrible middle-lane sitters, and sometimes overly polite - eg stopping on a roundabout to let people out.

@TreestumpsAndTrampolines, I see you have met my mother..

@Shedbuilder
Yeah, my dad fought alongside some Irish men. He thought they'd done a brave thing. His dad had gone to fight the fascists in Spain. As I said, different perspectives.

Your dad might have fought alongside mine, or his brother, or their cousin then. Or maybe my mum's uncle who survived the whole war in the British submarine service. They volunteered. They didn't desert the service of a state they had sworn to defend.

There were Irish and British volunteers on both sides in the Spanish Civil War, btw.

Why did your dad think the Irish had done a brave thing? Was it any braver than what the British themselves had done? If so, why?

Well, my dad had been called up and was only fighting because he had to. He wasn't what you'd call a fighting man. So he regarded those who had volunteered, particularly those who had come from countries that weren't directly affected, as being brave. Yes, I know there were Irish volunteers in Spain. Including the Irish Brigade.

@Vodkacranberryplease

...totally not being goady but interesting re the Jews. Cause Ireland seems so pro Palestine now! Which I really do not understand.

Nobody anywhere gave a rat's arse about the Palestinians until very recently.

Back in the late 1940s Ireland tended to support the Jews because they were blowing up the British in Mandate Palestine and the romance continued for a long time.

There were strong links between the Irgun and the IRA. According to some sources, the personal link was Robert Briscoe, TD, FF, (later Lord Mayor of Dublin) with the blessing of deValera. Yitzhak Shamir used the nom de guerre 'Michael' as a nod to Michael Collins.

ColdToesHere no idea where you get your information from. I moved back here a number of years ago with my english husband and kids and he has never ever experienced anything anti English here. He loves it here. He has got hugely involved in the local gaa club and has made loads of friends more then I have managed to. His career has take off way more then it would have in London there seems to be loads of opportunities. There is also a huge english population living here all my kids have english kids in their classes at school.

Mathanxiety,

I would really love to know why you are so incredibly worked up about this

I'm perfectly relaxed. It's you who seem to be getting into a lather.

@mathanxiety ^
Nobody anywhere gave a rat's arse about the Palestinians until very recently.

Back in the late 1940s Ireland tended to support the Jews because they were blowing up the British in Mandate Palestine and the romance continued for a long time.^

Thanks for that! The Palestinians have done a bang up PR job I'll say that much. They have bombed the shit out of Israel for years but managed to make it a cause.

@Shedbuilder, you keep on banging on about it and have done from the start, in a tone that has been immoderate to downright angry throughout on this particular topic. It's almost as if you have a personal axe to grind.

Why was that the first thing that sprang to mind when your partner mentioned moving to Ireland?
She's just been ranting at the far righters Nazi-saluting at the cenotaph and saying proudly that it wouldn't happen in Ireland. I made the mistake of replying no, it wouldn't happen in Ireland because Ireland stayed neutral during WW2 and then for years persecuted and scapegoated the Irish men and women who volunteered to fight Hitler.
It's almost as if you were implying that Ireland was pro-Nazi. No wonder it didn't go down well.
Yes, I know there were Irish volunteers in Spain. Including the Irish Brigade.
Another dig there. It's almost as if you have managed to airbrush Oswald Moseley out of history, the better to focus on the backstabbing, Nazi-loving, vindictive Irish.

Hopefully you have taken on board that 70,000 Irish men and women fought with the British during WW2 with no adverse consequences to them whatsoever upon return, and that 40,000 were ready to fight in Ireland if Ireland were to be invaded. You are probably not aware that plans for Britain to assist Ireland in case of invasion were prepared and agreed upon by both governments - essentially a British occupation of the entire island for defense purposes in hopes of keeping the Atlantic ports out of Nazi hands.

Two things:

1. We’re not Catholic, but DD goes to the local village ( Catholic) school. No pressure for DD to get involved in any churchy stuff unless we want that to happen.

1. Rural Broadband. I did mention up thread that we have 1GB internet access speeds... in our local town.

I often run the Speedtest App on my phone then send a screenshot to my tech nerd nephew in the U.K. who can only get 250Mbs. Such a shame.

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/how-one-west-cork-town-is-going-it-alone-on-rural-broadband-1.3380672

It's almost as if you have a personal axe to grind.

It is blindingly obvious from the opening post that its purpose was to provoke. Hopefully the OP will remain the UK and won’t set foot in Ireland or Germany.

I'm in dublin and my internet is great. I can't believe the rest of the country is still suffering the torture of slow broadband.

Complain! They roll out better services in the areas from where they've received the most complaints.