Am I the only person who doesn't know any trans people?

[LaureBerthaud]

Non goady question.

I don't know any, work with any or come across any trans people. Now it could be that they've done such a good job of transitioning that I don't notice, but where are they?

Please explain this undertone

All struggling with puberty, being gay or austistic

It’s actually hard to know who to count these days.

The umbrella covers a wide range of people. Using the stonewall one - well a lot of people actually (me, all my siblings, my dad, a few other relatives, some colleagues, a couple of shop assistants in the women’s departments...).

I am a transwidow. Still married to DH and we live together pretty amicably with DC but both agree we are not a romantic couple anymore. We both agree with JKR on trans issues and self ID and hate what the extreme transactivists are doing.

Through this have met many transwomen. One in particular DH met on a trans forum who set herself up as mentor in trans issues. We both believe she had complex mental issues and wasn't really trans. Was still unhappy after full surgery and didn't take her prescribed hormones which was very odd. Though I believe several of the most extreme transactivists don't take hormones especially the ones invading women's sport. She is a nasty bully who tried to tell me how I had to behave and think and spouted all the extreme trans bollocks. We cut contact some time ago and I never let her meet DC.

This person is a perfect example of why self ID is wrong. I do believe that gender dysphoria is real but is very rare and lots of people with other serious mental issues are jumping onto the trans bandwagon as a magical solution to their issues. Others of course with dubious motives are using self ID to make access to victims easier.

Another mutual trans friend is very much old school, content in her life and very respectful of women and their spaces. Uses ladies toilets but wouldn't dream of using changing rooms or doing anything to make women uncomfortable. Believes transwomen are transwomen and biological sex is real. I get on very well with her and DC have met her.

Have met many others at differing positions on the spectrum between these two but they are dispersed all over the country.

Have never met a transman as TM and TW don't seem to mix much and many seem to be younger. I suspect many are really lesbians struggling to come to terms with their sexuality and I really fear for them.

@ACNH

Please explain this undertone

It's the poster saying they "unfortunately no one" before giving details as to why its unfortunate.

It's the poster saying the young adults/teens they know who are trans "must be doing it for attention" this is very dismissive and offensive

It's the poster who called a non binary person a "bearded bloke" wearing sparkles or (can't remember exact words but they described their "girly attire" ) and then they face which is completly dismissive.

The other ones like I said are difficult to prove but it's the general sense of judgments made about them. I had to report 5 posts on a trans thread yesterday for transphobia, one claimed that all trans people needed psychiatric help. It got removed, for those who want to claim there is no transphobia on Mumsnet

Sorry first point meant "unfortunately one"

Not personally within my direct friendship group or colleagues.

I know a friend of one of ds friends who is a Woman to male transition and uses a male name. Not had any drugs or surgery as only 14.

I've met him and found it odd that after I'd met "Dave" (not real name) ds friends mum felt the need to explain 'dave' was once 'Jessica' and was trans.

I met 'Dave'. Dave was and is Dave to me. It is and was irrelevant who he use to be.

I also know of a few others through parents of my DS autism group. There is definitely a link between asd and transitioning. I did often wonder how much is identity issues. Not enough funding or support is available to support these young people imo.

Over my life I have known/met the total of six trans people.

All have been people who just want to make this change, to live their new life, as quietly and unobtrusively as possible, and all they have asked for is a little kindness and support during the difficult stage of beginning the process (eg would you mind putting Miss not Mr on my envelope please?)

I am shocked at some of the stuff I have read about the militant trans lobby and I suspect (or maybe just hope) that those people are a tiny minority.

I know a middle-aged transwoman who is a nice person who gets on well with everyone as far as I can see.

There are a bunch of young transmen (aged 14-17) at the school I work at who I really feel for. They are a classic case of social contagion in my opinion, I feel really very sad for them that they have had to transition in order to feel valid.

One of my neighbours transitioned over a decade ago. He looks well whenever I see him. He's married and his wife is lovely.

I know 2 f to m trans adults and one child who is f to m

I had a university lecturer who transitioned from m to f and that was 20 years ago

I have a close relative who is post-op TW. Transitioned about 3 years ago - at cost of great shock and hurt to his wife and children - he is late 60s.

My DD has teenage boy in school year above who is 'living as a girl' and appears to be accepted by most pupils without any fuss.

A friend's DH has come out as TW about 10 years ago but has no intention of having op and they are staying together.

All of the above are quiet, polite people without a hint of the aggression we're seeing from TWAW are brigade.

However, all use female toilets, and I just can't (will not) agree with anyone with a penis doing that.

A PP mentioned 'local characters' which reminded me of a TW I often see in our local Tesco.

He is always dressed in hideously fetishised outfits, is aggressive and invites trouble with anyone who looks at him but dresses so you can't miss him. "What you looking at, I'm a woman just like you" is a common refrain.

He once had on thigh high boots and a skirt so short that I swear you could see his undercarriage and it was most definitely male.

I know a couple of MTF trans people- the two that spring to mind couldn't be more different.

Person 1- fully transitioned without a huge amount of fanfare, top and bottom surgery (because 'why would I NOT have the surgery if I'm saying I'm in the wrong body?') , not involved in the trans scene at all. Presents as quite 'butch' /not overly 'girly', openly says 'I used to be a man' and has been supportive of JK Rowling during this recent drama.

Person 2- no surgery, surgery isn't needed to define who 'she really is'. Very involved in the trans scene and various kink scenes. Adopts very feminine gestures/ stereotypical phrases ('tee hee' etc) when around others. Loves an audience. Threatens legal action to those who mention her previous life. Thinks JK Rowling is the devil incarnate.
If you frequent the feminism boards you may know of her as she has been mentioned by name more than once.

I know the above two examples have been reduced down to the simplest terms. No offence intended on either side, just to serve really as an illustration of how different the two trans people I know are when it comes to 'transgender issues'.

I know a few. Friends of my kids or kids of my friends. Mostly teens.

@GreytExpectations I see all these as judgmental and stereotyping but not hate.

Judgement unfortunately is human nature.

As a teacher I have met a lot. Sadly (positively for some) the ease that the process can happen has led to a lot of autistic girls transitioning only to decide later they do not want this. Couple of boys as well but both from difficult backgrounds. Had a child who decided on a daily basis their gender which causes a lot of issues as staff were supposed to know which gender they were that day, not sure how, and parents complained every single day. Seemed to more about the parents than the child.

@Fearandsurprise I agree completely with that article on preferred pronouns. I don't have problems with transwomen I met after they transitioned and who present well but have always struggled with using them for DH who I married as a man and this provoked severe anxiety in me. I now just avoid using any pronouns at all in their case but it is an unresolved problem.

My son is trans. He is 15 and came out 2 years ago. He has gender dysphoria had hates his female form., and has been much happier in himself since identifying ad male, although of course it does bring it's own challenges.

He was upset over the patronising "wimmon" comments made by JK recently, as he considers himself a person who menstruates, an says it feels like she was personally dismissing him amd others lile him as less of a person. He thinks trans people should have their own sports categories.

As a parent, pretty much every thread on mumsnet discussing anything to do with trans people, feels like a hostile, sometimes intimidating, environment.

I know one transwoman, we were at school together 30 years ago, as a boy he was painfully shy and suffered with depression, (and I think has aspergers).
As a woman she has some mental health issues, but is much more outgoing and seems happier. She is extremely "girlie" in behaviour and dress, more so than any other woman in their late 40s that I know.
I'm glad she is happier in herself now.

@GreytExpectations

*I am quite judgemental but then the one I know doesn't appear to be all that genuine because firstly they decided they were trans, then they decided it was too much hassle and so decided to ignore it, then they told their wife they weren't going to have treatment until they had had children and now they have told their wife they are pressing ahead with treatment no matter what their wife feels.

I feel fairly justified in judging them.*

I'm sorry but no you aren't justified in judging an entire group of people based on ONE bad example. That's ridiculous, imagine if someone said the same thing about black people? Or gay people? Or any other group that are often descriminated against. You don't like trans people, which is your choice to make but don't try and claim you are justified because of the one trans person you know

I didn't say I was judging an entire group of people though did I? I said I was judging that one person.

I don't like what that one trans person is doing. The rest, I'll take them as I find them and judge them on their own behaviour.

Sorry, that'sexactlyincluded in the definition of trans now. Sexual fetishes are just as valid as dysmorphia (maybe more so as it's anti trans to talk about dysmorphia...).

Can you please explain this a bit further? Why is it anti trans to talk about it? Surely it's an important part of the conversation?

I know two transwomen, both senior in the legal profession. No transmen.

Anecdotally (ie through friends and colleagues) there are a lot more trans identifying kids at private girls schools than anywhere else. My kid's school has majority BAME families and a lot with pupil premium. There are no trans kids.

[quote ACNH]@GreytExpectations I see all these as judgmental and stereotyping but not hate.

Judgement unfortunately is human nature.[/quote]
To me they are offensive to the LGBTQ+ community. Its unfortunate that you can't see that but I'm not suprised. For some reason on Mumsnet it is justified to say judgmental and offensive things about the trans community and anyone who challenges it is accused of being anti women

He was upset over the patronising "wimmon" comments made by JK recently, as he considers himself a person who menstruates