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WTAF - Far right protests

999 replies

Poppi89 · 12/06/2020 11:18

I have just heard on the radio that far-right protesters will be out tomorrow in response to the BLM protesters. People are being urged not to be out in support of BLM tomorrow due to the aggressive nature of the far-right group and BLM protests are being cancelled because of them.

I am outraged by this. The BLM protesters are asking for people to not be killed due to the colour of their skin. They have rightly or wrongly made a decision to put themselves at risk of COVID-19 to help spread this message - a lot of people have called them idiots etc for doing this.

The far-right protests are now also protesting in large groups (but not in response to a murder) and are 'known' for being aggressive. How is this acceptable?

I would like to hear from anyone who is planning to join/agree with these far-right protests and their reasons why?

OP posts:
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MadameMarie · 12/06/2020 22:01

@Xenia

The point is most normal British people (not far left or far right)_ d not agree with breach of the law and will stand in front of our heritage and statues to protect them.

If the left think everyone who wants Churchill's statue to stand is "far right" then they do not understand this country nor her people.

Hence the Tories win every time (and Brexit)
CareBear50 · 12/06/2020 22:04

The far left is just as bad as the far right.

They both believe they are correct and everyone else is wrong and will both use violence to prove their point.

Scary times

Bluemooninmyeyes1 · 12/06/2020 22:12

Funnily enough I’ve just watched Akala’s response to the BLM protests and he is urging anti racist demonstrators to stay at home over the weekend. The reasons being, if there were riots between BLM and the fascists (obviously started by the fascists as they know they are losing ground) the right wing media and police will portray BLM as being the ‘provokers’ and being at fault, as often happens. However if BLM stay at home, there is no one to fight the racists and they will go home without the story they want.

Glowcat · 12/06/2020 22:14

’ How dare the far right hijack patriotism, the flag, the Cenotaph, people like Lee Rigby who died for this country, and roll them up in their nasty, jingoistic, racist and violent narrative. How dare they talk about ‘native British’ when they mean white people. It’s disgusting, and anyone who thinks like this ought to be thoroughly ashamed.‘

This.

A tiny number of people among the tens of thousands of peaceful protesters have been idiots and vandalised monuments. The far right groups start circulating fake reports on SM that statues are going to be ‘desecrated’ complete with plenty of pictures one idiotic person singeing a flag. They want to stir up a ‘counter protest’ where they can use ex servicemen as the fig leaf to cover their hate.

If people wanted to protect monuments go out in a BLM t shirt and protect the monuments. You can be in solidarity with BLM and protect statues. The two goals are not mutually exclusive. The overwhelming majority of protesters are not interested in touching the statues. They are not some crazed hoarde. They are ordinary people from all walks of life who have come out to peacefully protest for something they feel deeply about. They don’t ‘hate this country.’ They are this country, just as much as you and me.

Paska · 12/06/2020 22:16

@Bluemooninmyeyes1

Funnily enough I’ve just watched Akala’s response to the BLM protests and he is urging anti racist demonstrators to stay at home over the weekend. The reasons being, if there were riots between BLM and the fascists (obviously started by the fascists as they know they are losing ground) the right wing media and police will portray BLM as being the ‘provokers’ and being at fault, as often happens. However if BLM stay at home, there is no one to fight the racists and they will go home without the story they want.
Trump has already accused a 75 year old man who was injured by police as being an Antifa plant.
MadameMarie · 12/06/2020 22:21

@Bluemooninmyeyes1

Funnily enough I’ve just watched Akala’s response to the BLM protests and he is urging anti racist demonstrators to stay at home over the weekend. The reasons being, if there were riots between BLM and the fascists (obviously started by the fascists as they know they are losing ground) the right wing media and police will portray BLM as being the ‘provokers’ and being at fault, as often happens. However if BLM stay at home, there is no one to fight the racists and they will go home without the story they want.
They shouldn't be out anyway in mass gatherings during a pandemic.
user1471565182 · 12/06/2020 22:26

61% support for the far right on here. FUcking disgrace.

isitfridayyet1 · 12/06/2020 22:26

I think people need to do some factual research before they go stating opinions on here. Many people who attended the blm marches did so to show solidarity to a marginalised group. These individuals often have NO political affiliation. The protest is about basic human rights and equality. Why do people find it so hard to get that point?
Also why do all protestors who came out to support get tarred with the same brush? It was a minority of people who defaced monuments.

So if we apply the same reasoning as many posters here do, that one act of 'blm' vandalism means all are guilty, should it then be said all vandalism/violence/crime committed by an individual be attributed to a whole group in each and every case that goes for football fans, students at a protest, any sort of mass gathering? Come on guys this is not ISIS or a so called terrorist group.

Talking about right v left. Can you not be 'right wing' but still agree everyone has a right to not be murdered by police officers?
On forums such as this there is so much generalisation or lazy daily mail style commenting. No room for nuance or empathy and understanding.
If this forum is a reflection of society no wonder we have such an awful PM to lead us!

user1471565182 · 12/06/2020 22:27

oh I see its the usual crowd.

Willowmartha1 · 12/06/2020 22:32

I don't think it was the far right flinging bikes and bricks at horses was it ?????

Glowcat · 12/06/2020 22:35

On which occasion specifically? If you’re talking about football ultras, far right violent groups, that’s generally their idea of a nice day out and they aim to do it several times a season.

YounghillKang · 12/06/2020 22:47

That is what it states on their manifesto page, It didn’t give a detailed informative description. I would guess it goes along with them wanting to remove Patriarchy perhaps. But to have that on their manifesto, along with some of the other information is worrying.

Boudicca not sure if this helps but from what I understand the American Black Lives Matter Movement – and if you look at the ‘About’ section of the UK wing there is a proviso that the American movement doesn’t speak for the UK – has its manifesto here:

blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Black Lives Matter UK site is here

blacklivesmatteruk.com/about/

BLM is an umbrella group so not every wing will hold the same exact aims beyond the shared concern for black lives/social justice etc…Here, for example, a key reason why Churchill’s history has been debated is due to his stance on India, when part of the British Empire, so more directly relevant to the history of some British Asian communities, but won’t have the same relevance in the US.

news.sky.com/story/black-lives-matter-protests-how-focus-differs-between-us-and-uk-12004259

The American website of the main BLM organisation does reference the nuclear family:

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

And that can be interpreted as the old ‘it takes a village’ saying. And seems quite positive, it’s about communities coming together rather than people struggling to manage in isolation. And the reference to patriarchy, is about supporting mothers who are being forced to juggle household responsibilities, childcare and work. Also the case in the UK with women still taking on most cleaning, cooking, childcare even after a long day at work. Something that comes up on MN threads on a regular basis.

The issue about defunding the police seems to be a complicated one, and related to an ongoing political debate in America where funds for the police have dominated the finances of some states and have continued to rise when other things have been drastically cut. In LA over half of the city’s funds apparently go to paying for police…which is quite different from here. And some people in the US have been arguing for some time that rather than continuously upping police funds, while cutting other services, that money could go to other agencies –

To help victims of domestic violence, we might invest in women’s centres; to support young people, we might open new youth centres. We might invest in better trauma services for both. We might remove the police from the process of sectioning the mentally ill. We might invest more broadly in community infrastructure, like employment, housing and education

www.wired.co.uk/article/defund-the-police

inews.co.uk/news/defund-the-police-meaning-what-mean-disband-policing-george-floyd-death-explained-440448

Alsohuman · 12/06/2020 22:48

A protester threw a bicycle at a police horse last weekend, another lit a firework under one. A statue of Queen Victoria was spray painted with “Slag”. Are you defending that @Glowcat? I can hear Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King turning in their graves. I’m about as far from the right as you can get but this isn’t how you effect change.

YounghillKang · 12/06/2020 22:52

These individuals often have NO political affiliation. The protest is about basic human rights and equality. Why do people find it so hard to get that point?

Exactly it's functioning as an umbrella for anti-racist groups, which will have a variety of political beliefs and affiliations, why you can have the Church of England, the Lib Dems and the Socialist Workers both broadly supporting BLM UK. It reminds me of reading about 'Rock against Racism' in the 70s...The way BLM movement works in Australia or Belgium or Korea - all of which have very different circumstances, histories but all have had marches and protests under the broad BLM banner - will differ yet again.

Nickname21 · 12/06/2020 22:57

@Willowmartha1

I don't think it was the far right flinging bikes and bricks at horses was it ?????
I think it was the far right that murdered George Floyd though.
YounghillKang · 12/06/2020 23:01

I’m about as far from the right as you can get but this isn’t how you effect change.

Always? What about the Stonewall riots in the US that marked the beginning of gay liberation? What about the Poll Tax riots in the UK in 1990?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38382416

And whether or not we all agree about the toppling of statues, it has already led to a number of councils reviewing their policies on who and what is/isn't being represented in their areas. As well as debates over colonialist history and the curriculum and so on...People in Bristol have been lobbying for years for the statue of a slaveowner to be removed and nothing happened...

Gary Younge is interesting on the issue of civil disobedience, violence and change

Justanotherlurker · 12/06/2020 23:08

I think it was the far right that murdered George Floyd though.

Wow, I would love to see how you back this up, police being shit in the US is a thing, saying they are far right is a dangerous path to go down considering the amount of Black police officers killing not only white but black unarmed suspects is a thing.

Nice whataboutry though, kind of how that white kid in ireland getting stabbed was from the far right I suppose.

It's this kind of baseless baiting is not at all about BLM.

YounghillKang · 12/06/2020 23:11

Also not sure Alsohuman that Martin Luther King would entirely agree with you, he discusses some relevant things in his famous Letter from Birmingham Jail...

We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.

In your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? Isn't this like condemning a robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn't this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical inquiries precipitated the act by the misguided populace in which they made him drink hemlock? Isn't this like condemning Jesus because his unique God consciousness and never ceasing devotion to God's will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion?

www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

YounghillKang · 12/06/2020 23:13

And aren't you cherrypicking, focusing on the actions of a small group of people on a march of thousands? Rather than looking at the overall cause and what it relates to?

Alsohuman · 12/06/2020 23:25

No I’m not cherry picking. Everything now depends on the optics. What sticks in people’s minds? Not all the peaceful protesters. Not the cause, its origins or causes. The abiding images of the last couple of weeks will be that appalling video of George Floyd’s murder and violent incidents from British protests.

With people like me these protests should be pushing at an open door.

YounghillKang · 12/06/2020 23:39

What sticks in my mind are the aerial shots of a long, flowing, river of people marching against racism!

It’s deeply regrettable that the horse was spooked, but whose bright idea was it to take a small group of horses to charge a very large mass of people? And did they really not imagine that the group might react in unexpected ways? There’s a long history in the UK – England in particular – of police or other forces charging into crowds as an intimidation/scattering tactic – going back to Peterloo – and countless people have been injured or trampled as a result. So it’s not surprising that protesters don’t necessarily stand around waiting for that kind of thing to happen. Particularly when dealing with the Met who are not known for consistently light policing tactics. And officers within the Met have spoken out for the protesters.

Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, who is the head of UK counter-terror policing, called for officers to pay attention to demonstrators’ “legitimate anger”.

“Yes, some people behave badly; yes, a tiny minority are no more than criminal opportunists, but the overwhelming majority are showing solidarity with George and what his death represents – they have a point,” he wrote in a personal message to British police

…the head of the police watchdog said forces must listen and respond to “real and growing concerns” about racism within their own ranks.

The Director General of the Independent Office for Police Conduct, Michael Lockwood, added: “There must be more research to understand issues of disproportionality, as well as assurance and scrutiny around tactics like use of force and stop and search.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/black-lives-matter-protests-uk-police-racism-neil-basu-bame-a9558121.html

The Bristol police took an immediate, more measured stance in relation to the Colston statue, deciding not to intervene, the statue was removed, later retrieved and will end up in a museum…

Alsohuman · 12/06/2020 23:48

You’re now defending a firework being lit under a defenceless animal and blaming the police for it because apparently the only proper way for them to behave is to look on while mob rule prevails? You’re as bad as the rabid Tories who’ll defend Johnson whatever he does. I’m out.

thegcatsmother · 12/06/2020 23:57

YounghillKang People are upset about the graffitiing and possible removal of statues that are part of the place where they live in an arbitrary fashion, without consultation becuase someone has stuck that statue on a list and decided that the behaviour of someone who lived in the 1500s was not in line with the behaviour and beliefs expected in 2020. Can you not see that someone who lived in the 1500s would have lived their short lives by their own mores and not those of the 21st century?

My 80 year old mother has said she will go and tie herself to the statue in question, in a small Devon town, if any attempts are made by protesters to remove it; she feels that strongly about it. She is not 'far right', but sees the removal of the statues as a knee jerk reaction.

As for Belgium - well; I think BLM will have an uphill road there. I can't see the exhibits in the Africa Museum in Tervuren being returned, or the Colonial Palace in Tervuren being renamed any time soon either. An awful lot of Belgians seem to have a blindness when it comes to King Leopold II and what was then the Congo.

YounghillKang · 13/06/2020 00:01

Now you're deliberately twisting my words, and also the words of the members of the police who themselves have stood up for the protesters and what they stand for...which suggests that you are in fact, as I suspected, determined to focus on the tiny minority rather than the overwhelming majority in order to highlight the negative. The police have strategies, sometimes those strategies are the wrong ones. The Bristol police had a strategy that related to the context, the context was different in London but the decision to charge the crowd was clearly the wrong strategy, it didn't work. By your logic it would have been better for the protesters to scatter, risking trampling others around them or wait to be trampled by horses - as they were at Orgreave for example. Your decision to pull focus in that way is deeply suspect, so whether you're out or not I have no interest in interacting with you further on this matter.

Alsohuman · 13/06/2020 00:06

Excellent.