WTAF - Far right protests

[Poppi89]

I have just heard on the radio that far-right protesters will be out tomorrow in response to the BLM protesters. People are being urged not to be out in support of BLM tomorrow due to the aggressive nature of the far-right group and BLM protests are being cancelled because of them.

I am outraged by this. The BLM protesters are asking for people to not be killed due to the colour of their skin. They have rightly or wrongly made a decision to put themselves at risk of COVID-19 to help spread this message - a lot of people have called them idiots etc for doing this.

The far-right protests are now also protesting in large groups (but not in response to a murder) and are 'known' for being aggressive. How is this acceptable?

I would like to hear from anyone who is planning to join/agree with these far-right protests and their reasons why?

Thegcat'smother I agree with you re: Belgium, if what I've read is accurate, the denial about Belgium's colonialist past is even more deep-seated than it is in parts of the UK. And I take your point re: your mother but the thread was about the far right groups who have announced they will march on Saturday in opposition to the BLM planned march. It wasn't about small groups of individuals who have particular emotional or other attachments to statues. And I've been trying to stay on the original topic and call attention to inaccuracies or misrepresentations in other posts - such as the ones claiming the DFLA is not a recognised far-right group.

The website re: statues is an interesting one, I've not looked into it, is it directly sanctioned by BLM? I didn't get that impression. But as for statues, the Colston one was put up over 200 years - iirc - after he died...and a reimagining of his character rather than directly tied to his historical moment. But if the argument is that we can't remove representations of the past from shared public spaces because they are solely emblematic of their era then that would be out of keeping with what actually happens across the globe, historical characters fall out of favour... statues are removed, walls are tumbled etc...And people, as in Bristol, get tied of asking for a statue to be removed or relocated year after year because walking past it feels like an endorsement of slavery and the idea of some being lesser than others. And I can understand why that would result in anger. A planned campaign to take all statues down is a different matter altogether, and the councils reviewing what should/shouldn't stay in public spaces seem to be taking a sensible approach. I can't personally imagine tying myself to a statue, growing up in a large city where statues are everywhere, I barely notice them, more likely to take in the pigeon shit they're often covered in...

Compared to Belgium, the UK is very open about its Colonial past. You might find this interesting - I posted it on another thread the other day.
www.npr.org/2018/09/26/649600217/where-human-zoos-once-stood-a-belgian-museum-now-faces-its-colonial-past?t=1592006963565. It's shocking in parts, especially the bit about the human zoos as late as 1958.

I moved back from near Tervuren last year, and there were moves afoot to take back artefacts from the Africa Museum, and several articles debating this in the local press. I think, from what I gleaned, it isn't something the average Belgian thinks about. The Colonial Palace is used for balls, dinner dances, conferences, dinners, meetings etc, and no eyebrows are raised at the name. In one of the villages nearby is a bar called In Den Congo (In The Congo), which is a normal bar, but the name always seemed a tad dubious to me.

Statues; it's a BLM website that is calling for some statues to be taken down. If you want acknowledgement of the UK's colonial past, then keeping the statues up will achieve that, as contextual information can be put by the statue. Does the fact that Guy founded, endowed and used his ill gotten gains to ensure that the poorest of the poor had access to hospital care negate his actions in the first place? I don't know - but the hospital is still there. Do we only remember the bad people have done? Can we have second order good from first order evil as with Guy? People were and are now, multi faceted. I'm not sure we can judge the actions of an individual in past times by the mores of today, without taking into account the time they lived in, and the societal pressures, laws and beliefs of the time.

My Mum feels very strongly about the statue in her small town that is on the list; many service veterans feel very strongly about the Cenotaph and other war memorials, especially the last of the WWII generation, given we've just had the 76th anniversary of D Day last weekend; it was the 75th anniversary of VE day not so long back, and VJ day is on August 15th. The latter is especially poignant, given the awful treatment of POWs on the Burma railway.

Slavery and colonialism are still happening today. I wonder what the verdict will be on the Chinese colonisation of the African continent that is happening now?

Gosh the level of hate on this thread by what is call the far-right is disgusting. Hate speech is a crime so the far-right joining the BLM protests tomorrow absolutely should be stopped.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/12/belgiums-cursed-prince-defends-leopold-ii-congo-cruelty-anti/

Enoughalready I don't see hate, or the far right either - I see frustration at wanton destruction and violence, which we see every time protest is supposed to be peaceful.

The BLM UK go fund me page states this:
'We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain.' 'The redistribution of wealth is a key factor of allyship in 2020. ' Seems straight out of the marxist playbook to me.

@thegcatsmother

Enoughalready I don't see hate, or the far right either - I see frustration at wanton destruction and violence, which we see every time protest is supposed to be peaceful.

The BLM UK go fund me page states this:
'We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain.' 'The redistribution of wealth is a key factor of allyship in 2020. ' Seems straight out of the marxist playbook to me.

They want anarchy

The anarchy that BLM want and are trying to cause, should and will I believe be resisted by 95% of the UK - including by huge numbers of ethnic minorities who take huge pride in living here.

Well I hope it doesn’t kick off this weekend, it will be the start of our society disintegrating. Every colour, age, class will suffer. Coronvirus will be the last thing we will be worried about.

Both sides are being both stupid and very very selfish,
They could find safer ways to protest.
They have no concern for the nhs staff who will have more Covid patients, or the Police who have to be there, all public servants who are being forced to put their lives on the line in a Pandemic.

Selfish,selfish,selfish

Both sides want violence, the anarchists attacking the police and police horses and public property looked pretty violent to me and large numbers were white, they wanted a riot.

The ridiculous media onslaught that any person who protests and doesn't agree with BLM is racist or far right, is tiresome.

Let”s be honest people can”t longer question or have opinions before being label racist, far right, transphobic... I went to the BLM UK and there is not address, charity registration number, contact details. Does people question this?

YANBU. Despite the fact that I hagte them and their racist, divisive politics with every fibre of my being, I have no problem with the EDL/Britain First and all the other neo-nazi groups having a march. It is their democratic right and they are as entitled to march as any other group, despite their history of violence.

But to do it on the same day as the BLM march is nothing but shit-stirring and it is clear that they are looking for a confrontation. These knuckle-draggers must be feeling even more marginalised as the anti-racist, pro-equality movement garners more support and will be wanting a ruck.

You either believe in free speech or you don’t.

Free speech means the right to express views that appal you, not just ones you agree with.

I believe in free speech.

Free speech is fine, it’s when it turns into riots and anarchy it’s a problem.

BLM is an organisation, not a statement.

You can agree with the statement but be highly suspicious of the organisation and many of its aims.

For instance, they are parading #defundthepolice today. How many here believe in that?

blacklivesmatter.com/

There are a lot of Nimbys here (and in general) who believe that it is ‘only property’ being destroyed until the marchers march down their street, destroying their shops and maybe houses, when the law and policing suddenly become far more popular.

BLM want to dismantle the institutions of the state such as the police, the judiciary and prisons. That makes them far left to me.

This

@Dragongirl10

Both sides are being both stupid and very very selfish, They could find safer ways to protest. They have no concern for the nhs staff who will have more Covid patients, or the Police who have to be there, all public servants who are being forced to put their lives on the line in a Pandemic.

Selfish,selfish,selfish

Wow, I added £4 to my holiday fund there. I’m giving myself £1 for every time I read “selfish” - the most overused and meaningless word on MN. The protests are many things but selfish is about the furthest you can get.

BLM is very US centric and has included other countries who have been promoting it after the fact rather than at its conception. The ethos obviously of equality is the same anywhere, but some of the aims aren't really applicable here.

BLM want to dismantle the institutions of the state such as the police, the judiciary and prisons

I think you'll find they want to reform them, not "dismantle" them. They've also raised the issue of economic inequalities and inequalities in health outcomes, does that mean they want to "dismantle" the economic system and the NHS, @RoLaren.

The protests are many things but selfish is about the furthest you can get.

It depends, they have chosen to go out during a pandemic at which going despite the risk is selfless regarding themselves. Those that don't have the choice but to be subject to the virus if someone has picked it up would probably view it as selfish. So have another £1 if you like.

I have 2 cousins and a very good friend who have been to war, and who's lives have been irrevocably changed by what they've seen out there. They are upset about the damage to the memorials and if they, and I are being deemed as racist and far right because of it, then so be it.

Indeed. As for the narrative that people on the left ‘hate this country’, it makes me very angry indeed. How dare the far right hijack patriotism, the flag, the Cenotaph, people like Lee Rigby who died for this country, and roll them up in their nasty, jingoistic, racist and violent narrative. How dare they talk about ‘native British’ when they mean white people. It’s disgusting, and anyone who thinks like this ought to be thoroughly ashamed

I'm with you on that @TornadoOfSouls, but I do have a little chuckle when they quote Blake and sing "Jerusalem", in complete ignorance of Blake's revolutionary, republican and anti-commerce beliefs.

Also,

Given that the protestors will directly cause deaths of doctors and nurses of all ethnicities, leaving grieving children behind, I would call them selfish. And, of course, most are young and fit, so are taking little or no personal risk.

And for what? Do they have an actual real demand if a law to be changed or an enquiry that they would like to see?

So, yes, selfish...

I think you can start looking at business class to a 5 star hotel after this thread.

think you'll find they want to reform them, not "dismantle" them.

Well, www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests-reform/minneapolis-city-council-resolves-to-replace-police-with-community-led-model-idUSKBN23J2W5

There's a lot of support on MN for the far right isn't there? BLM are angry because of years of oppression. Far right - what exactly do they have to be angry about? A couple of statues?