WTAF - Far right protests

[Poppi89]

I have just heard on the radio that far-right protesters will be out tomorrow in response to the BLM protesters. People are being urged not to be out in support of BLM tomorrow due to the aggressive nature of the far-right group and BLM protests are being cancelled because of them.

I am outraged by this. The BLM protesters are asking for people to not be killed due to the colour of their skin. They have rightly or wrongly made a decision to put themselves at risk of COVID-19 to help spread this message - a lot of people have called them idiots etc for doing this.

The far-right protests are now also protesting in large groups (but not in response to a murder) and are 'known' for being aggressive. How is this acceptable?

I would like to hear from anyone who is planning to join/agree with these far-right protests and their reasons why?

@Puzzledandpissedoff Again, I agree completely. It makes such a difference having a good opposition leader. We'd lacked that for a long time. Also having a Labour Party that are united has improved things considerably, so they're able to focus on the issues at hand.

Not doing a great job of (looking after themselves) now

True enough, Alsohuman, but they've no doubt got an eye on that huge majority and the fact they're only 6 months in

I was thinking more of the longer term, however, and their well-practised instinct for self-preservation. It may not work quite as well next time, but I still think it's likely that it'll take more than one general election to remove them

BaileysforBreakfast
Why on earth would you want to whitewash reality like that?

I copied the term from Tell MAMA - their annual report is called "Beyond the Incident" ...

"An offline, or street-level, incident means that the incident occurred in-person between a victim (or property) and a perpetrator.There were therefore more street incidents of anti-Muslim hatred reported into Tell MAMA."

@clavinova

So I'll ask again, can you understand how the PMs comments about BAME people can be divisive? Can you see how these comments embolden Far Right groups? Can you see why they would act against BAME people? Do you feel that as PM, he has a responsibility to unify people?

(And shall we just say "Hate Crimes" then, b/c that's what the Home Office calls the "incidents").

still think it's likely that it'll take more than one general election to remove them

Three months ago I’d have agreed with you but they’re not going to be able to brush 60,000 deaths and economic ruin under the carpet. Nor do I think we’ve got another four years until we’re back in the polling booths.

Nor do I think we’ve got another four years until we’re back in the polling booths

Good god no😮!! I’ll be happy not to see this sign for at least another four years and even that feels too soon, I’m all voted out.

they’re not going to be able to brush 60,000 deaths and economic ruin under the carpet

Actually yes, that's a point. I wouldn't expect them to give a toss about the deaths beyond a bit of lip service, but the economic consequences could just do it

After all, they'll be ongoing ...

Clavinova Oh, you 'copied' it. There's a surprise. And yet there's nothing in the way that post is laid out to indicate that was anything other than your own words.

Andante Confused - Aren’t general elections the opportunity to do that?
Unfortunately our FPTP system means we usually end up with a government that the majority of voters did not vote for. FPTP means BJ got a whacking majority despite getting hardly any more votes than TM did in the election before.

I’m not voted out until I’ve voted this bunch of incompetents out.

The party of Phillip Davies and Christopher Chope is better for women?

The party with 56% islamophobes is better for minorities?

BaileysforBreakfast
Oh, you 'copied' it.There's a surprise. And yet there's nothing in the way that post is laid out to indicate that was anything other than your own words.

To be fair, I provided a link to a report with the word 'incident/s' emblazoned all over it. My post was directed to YankeeinKingArthursCourt who started this discussion with an @ clavinova and a link to an article in the Guardian discussing the very same report - the Guardian article refers to 'incidents' at least 12 times as well.

BaileysforBreakfast
I don't usually read your cut-n-pastes

By all means skip over the next one.

YankeeinKingArthursCourt
I will have to reply to you in stages as I am busy with something else.

(And shall we just say "Hate Crimes" then, b/c that's what the Home Office calls the "incidents").

There is a distinction - a hate crime is a criminal offence.

What is a Hate Incident?

"A Hate Incident is any non-crime incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity or perceived disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity."

Examples include:

"Verbal or online abuse, insults or harassment, such as taunting, offensive leaflets and posters, abusive gestures, dumping of rubbish outside homes or through letterboxes, and bullying at school or in the workplace."

"A hate incident doesn't mean that we won't take it seriously if someone reports it."

www.westyorkshire.police.uk/advice/abuse-anti-social-behaviour/hate-crime/hate-crime

I believe that Tell MAMA's statistics are not duplicated in police statistics - Tell MAMA's records (incidents reported directly to them) appear to include a wide spectrum - from "small" incidents (their words) - to more serious attacks which would be regarded as a criminal offence.

The Government have in fact provided Tell MAMA with more funding -

"Providing Tell MAMA with £2.5m of funding between 2017 and 2019 to support its work encouraging the reporting of anti-Muslim hatred and providing support to victims. Between January and March 2018, Tell MAMA hosted 77 community events reaching over 7,500 people and since 2017 they have established 10 Regional Advisory Boards to support their work."

homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2018/07/19/fact-sheet-hate-crime/

Tell MAMA stated in their report that they were surprised/concerned that there wasn't a larger decrease in the number of anti-Muslim incidents reported to them in 2018 compared to 2017 (when four major terrorist attacks occurred) - but at the same this might be because they were given £2.5 m worth of funding to encourage more people to report such incidents.

YankeeinKingArthursCourt
So I'll ask again, can you understand how the PM's comments about BAME people can be divisive?

Personally I don't think the "piccaninnies" comment is divisive at all - it was taken out of context from a satirical article written by Boris Johnson in Jan 2002. If the comment is regarded as divisive 18 years later, then it is the left-wing/liberal media/MPs who are perpetuating that division.

In fact I have just discovered the 'piccaninny/watermelon' image on Netflix.com (I won't link) - a cover for Spike Lee's 2000 "satirical comedy-drama film" Bamboozled' (no, I haven't heard of it either) -

"Director Spike Lee copies from Mel Brooks' oeuvre..."

I wonder if Netflix will take the image down? Perhaps you could email them YankeeinKingArthursCourt if you are concerned?

Bamboozled is described as a "masterpiece" by the Guardian's (BAME?) film critic in 2015;

"Written and directed by Spike Lee, the film is an intense satire..."
(That word satire again)

www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/06/bamboozled-spike-lee-masterpiece-race-in-america

Towards the end of the article there is a reference to a satirical novel by African American author, Paul Beatty - The Sellout (2015) - one of the characters is described as a former “pickaninny” "star of Little Rascals films". In other reviews, we are told that the main protagonist grows "artisanal marijuana and watermelons." The novel won the Man Booker Prize a year later in 2016 -

The Guardian again;

"Paul Beatty has become the first American writer to win the Man Booker prize, for a caustic satire on US racial politics that judges said put him up there with Mark Twain and Jonathan Swift."

"The 54-year-old Los Angeles-born writer won for The Sellout, a laugh-out-loud novel..."

www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/paul-beatty-wins-man-booker-prize-2016#:~:text=Man%20Booker%20prize%202016%20won%20by%20American%20author%20Paul%20Beatty&text=Paul%20Beatty%20has%20become%20the,Mark%20Twain%20and%20Jonathan%20Swift.

Clavinova, if you can’t see that the use of a perjorative, racist term by a white old Etonian is completely different to its use by a black African American writer, I’m not sure any of us can help you. It’s why the n word is used by black rappers.

I wish you and Xenia would stop wittering on about context. Words matter, regardless of context. Those words are unacceptable from Johnson and that’s why he won’t be allowed to forget using them for the rest of his life.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/16/boris-johnson-has-a-race-problem-says-brother-of-stephen-lawrence

This is true - how can a racist PM have any credibility to solve the racism problem in the UK?

Taking something Boris Johnson said in 2002 and saying he is racist because of it is getting very close to McCarthyism.

‘Have you ever at any time associated with a known racist’?!

The idea that merely saying a word, regardless of context or even if the implication is the polar opposite, is racist, is both simplistic and dangerous.

Alsohuman
It’s why the n word is used by black rappers.
Those words are unacceptable from Johnson
Words matter, regardless of context.

In which case, do you expect to see "piccaninnies" repeated by white left-wing/liberal journalists in the media? Do you expect opposition MPs to repeat BJ's words for political point scoring? What do you mean by regardless of context?

I heard [white] LBC radio presenter, James O'Brien, refer to BJ as Boris “piccaninny/piccaninnies” Johnson on air just a few days ago - do you find this context acceptable?

Are you saying that everyone can use these words in context
except Boris Johnson?

Do you think the Netflix film cover for Bamboozled should be removed?

BJ is not racist and Labour are so badly regarded (and rightly so) by most people they have not won an election since they won in 2005 (thankfully). I hope Labour don't win in Dec 2024 (the next election).

You’re being disingenuous again Clavinova. Yes, of course quoting Johnson is fine when discussing his racism.

I’d never heard of Bamboozled but, having googled it, the artwork for the film appears completely vile as does the film. I guess it’s up to Netflix whether it shows it or not. I imagine they’ll stop if enough people complain.

I think we could may be have guessed that Xenia. I hope the world will have moved on and a fairer system will be in place. Failing that, I would like to hear some honesty from BJ.

BJ is not racist

I don't think that's at all funny xenia
Do some research into him and Pritti racist Patel and they're ethnic cleansing, through the back door.
Gove, joined in too, during lockdown.
Look what they are doing to traveller families across the country, look at the laws they are changing, their discrimination isn't even covert.

I’m assuming Xenia is joking about Boris not being a racist - everyone knows he is, as are many of his government.

In a recent poll one in five voters (21 per cent) who backed the Conservatives at the last general election would be more inclined to vote for Starmer, as well as 45 per cent of those who backed the Liberal Democrat’s.

@clavinova
Thank you for answering my 1st question. So: No, you do not think that the PMs comments about BAME people are divisive.
My other questions:
Can you see how these comments can embolden Far Right groups? Can you see why FR groups would act against BAME people? Do you feel that as PM, he has a responsibility to unify people?

( FWIW, I saw 'Bamboozled' when it came out. Like most of Spike Lee's films, it is a critique of the treatment of African Americans in American society, in this case the historic negative portrayals of AA in film & tv).