WTAF - Far right protests

[Poppi89]

I have just heard on the radio that far-right protesters will be out tomorrow in response to the BLM protesters. People are being urged not to be out in support of BLM tomorrow due to the aggressive nature of the far-right group and BLM protests are being cancelled because of them.

I am outraged by this. The BLM protesters are asking for people to not be killed due to the colour of their skin. They have rightly or wrongly made a decision to put themselves at risk of COVID-19 to help spread this message - a lot of people have called them idiots etc for doing this.

The far-right protests are now also protesting in large groups (but not in response to a murder) and are 'known' for being aggressive. How is this acceptable?

I would like to hear from anyone who is planning to join/agree with these far-right protests and their reasons why?

Parker

As usual you come up trumps, thanks for those stats, very interesting

YankeeinKingArthursCourt
Thank you for answering my 1st question.

Did you answer any of my questions?

Do you feel that as PM, he has a responsibility to unify people?

Yes, of course, but his 2002 and 2018 comments were made before he became Prime Minister - he wrote both of those articles when a backbench MP.

Can you see how these comments can embolden Far Right groups?

If you think that a few comments written by Boris Johnson 16 years apart have emboldened Far Right groups I think you are on the wrong track. It is the left-wing/liberal media/MPs who keep repeating these comments in any case.

Looking at the Tell MAMA stats in your first link;

"In the week following that article [Sunday 5th August 2018] Tell Mama said anti-Muslim incidents increased by 375%–from eight incidents the previous week, to 38 in the following."

"Of the 38 anti-Muslim hate incidents, 22 were directed at Muslim women who wore the niqab, or face veil."

(In the annual report these are off-line incidents, mainly verbal abuse.)

For comparison - "the number of racially or religiously aggravated incidents following terrorist incidents in the spring and summer of 2017 rose to 6,000 at their height."
I assume this figure includes on-line and off-line incidents.

"from eight incidents the previous week, to 38 in the following."

Minor points:

Tell MAMA appear to have counted a 5 day week for the 'previous week' (Mon 30th July - Fri 3rd Aug) and an 8 day week for the 'Boris Johnson week' (Mon 6th Aug - Mon 13th Aug).

We are shown weekly bar charts for 1st Feb - 27th June and a daily graph for 30th July - 25th August but nothing detailed for 28th June - 29th July. July does dip slightly as a whole, but I'd like to see the individual weeks leading up to the BJ week. Not enough room on the page? Or July doesn't fit their written analysis?

Published at the same time as Johnson's article:

4th August Daily Mirror - "Muslim woman is first person to be charged in Denmark for wearing a face veil in public."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslim-woman-first-person-charged-13031018

8th August Telegraph - "Rochdale grooming gang members face deportation after losing appeal."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/08/rochdale-grooming-gang-members-face-deportation-losing-appeal/

11 August Daily Mail - "I can't breathe. I'm itchy. I can't see properly and feel trapped in a mobile prison. But threatened? No! LIZ JONES [journalist] describes her week in a BURKA."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6051019/I-breathe-Im-itchy-properly-Liz-Jones-describes-week-wearing-burka.html

BJ's article was published 5th Aug (2 incidents), 6th Aug (2 incidents), 7th August (3 incidents)...Liz Jones' article was published 11th Aug (7 incidents), 12th Aug (7 incidents), 13th Aug (6 incidents).

The final line of Tell MAMA's 100 page report (no, I haven't read it all!!) slightly undermines their claim that Boris Johnson's remarks were responsible for the 'significant' spike in August.The last paragraph deals with police incidents;

"The annual timeline for anti-Muslim incidents reported to our police partners in 2018 showed minor spikes in March and August and a significant spike around April and May" ... "These spring-time spikes match those recorded by Tell MAMA" ... "There was a slight increase in August, rising by 10% since July, which we tend to see during the summer period."

They didn't refer to Boris Johnson's August comments here.

Yes, of course, but his 2002 and 2018 comments were made before he became Prime Minister - he wrote both of those articles when a backbench MP.

So that's all right then. Only PMs need not to make racist comments.

Peregrina

Equally, link from Parker231's link;

"Neil Basu, one of Britain’s most senior police officers" said;

“Every public figure who’s got a microphone and has got an opportunity to speak should take the opportunity to be bringing society together."^

You don't seem to mind when left-wing/liberals take Boris Johnson's words out of context and repeat them - political point scoring in this context doesn't bring society together either.

Parker
As usual you come up trumps, thanks for those stats, very interesting

I have just remembered that Parker231 is from Belgium - I assume her father has returned there?

2017
"European Court of Human Rights upholds Belgium's ban on burqas and full-face Islamic veils."
"Judges find country has right to outlaw 'practice considered incompatible in Belgian society'."

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/belgium-burqa-ban-upheld-european-court-of-human-rights-dakir-v-full-face-islamic-veils-headscarf-a7835156.html

You are trying to excuse Boris Johnson's words because they were taken out of context. A public figure should be mindful that this can happen. You said he was supposedly criticising Blair's enthusiasm for international travel. I would have thought their was enough in Blair's behaviour to criticise it on his own terms.

Well, let's hear him satirise Trump in the same way, and then pass it off as 'just a joke'.

@clavinova
Again, thanks for engaging.
IMO you seem slightly obsessed with (discrediting) a Muslim advocacy group, but perhaps if you've learned a little bit about Islamaphobia along the way, so be it. (If you do not believe their statistics / methodology etc, look at The Met, CPS or the Home Office stats for increases in Hate Crimes).

I would expect a public figure, and particularly an elected Member of Parliament ( and Home Secretary) to be a unifying force, & not make derogatory comments about BAME people (who are also their constituents). Certainly BoJo is not alone in this and there have been other complaints re: Tory Islamaphobia & racism ( not to mention the Brexit campaign ...).

So, your assessment is that derogatory comments (re the BAME community) by public elected officials do not embolden the Far Right and in fact it is the Left wing / liberal media who are responsible?

You said he was supposedly criticising Blair's enthusiasm for international travel.

Have you not read the article in question yourself?

Well, let's hear him satirise Trump in the same way, and then pass it off as 'just a joke'.

Well, he can't do that now obviously - he is our elected Prime Minister - he can satirise Trump in 5/10 years time when Rishi Sunak is PM.

In fact, Boris Johnson did criticise Donald Trump in December 2015;

"Boris Johnson has become the first senior British politician to declare that Donald Trump's remarks about Muslims make him 'unfit' to serve as US President."

"The Mayor of London stepped up his attack on the Republican Presidential contender, declaring that his "stupefying ignorance" proved he was "clearly out of his mind".

“I would invite him to come and see the whole of London and take him round the city - except I wouldn’t want to expose any Londoners to any unnecessary risk of meeting Donald Trump."

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/12/09/boris-johnson-slams-donal_n_8758292.html

BoJo has always played the buffoon, and I tend to think the quoted comments were clueless rather than meant in a racist/Islamaphobic way. He once got himself into hot water by insulting Liverpudlians.

Re women and hijabs, lot of Muslim women don't approve of the hijab themselves, and consider it to be an aspect of the oppression of women. But it's never a good idea for a white person to wade into debates of this nature, as it's an issue for Muslim women and not for us. Although other European countries have outlawed it.

Sorry, I should have said 'non Muslims' there, as there obviously white people do convert to Islam.

YankeeinKingArthursCourt
IMO you seem slightly obsessed with (discrediting) a Muslim advocacy group

I am not obsessed - you are the one who keeps posting @ clavinova. I haven't approached this topic any differently to other topics I have looked at - one fact is the same as another to me.

(If you do not believe their statistics/methodology etc, look at The Met, CPS or the Home Office stats for increases in Hate Crimes).

Tell MAMA referred to these statistics in the final paragraph of their report;

"The annual timeline for anti-Muslim incidents reported to our police partners in 2018 showed minor spikes in March and August and a significant spike around April and May" ... "These spring-time spikes match those recorded by Tell MAMA" ... "There was a slight increase in August, rising by 10% since July, which we tend to see during the summer period."

I am not disputing the number of anti-Muslim incidents, only the accusation that Boris Johnson's comments were responsible for a significant spike in August 2018, or at any other point - I am wondering if there is some political bias here.

But surely the spike in anti-Muslim incidents would have been because of Islamist terrorist attacks? I can't really imagine they're because of stupid comments from BoJo, who wasn't even Prime Minister then. I just rolled my eyes and thought 'What a tosser' when I read about them.

It's similar to what happened during the Troubles in Northern Ireland, there was an increase in prejudice against people with Irish accents.

It's not in any way justifiable, any attacks are heinous and shouldn't be tolerated.

Have you not read the article in question yourself?

Yes, and? Blair gave people enough ammunition to criticise him with, without Johnson's supposedly witty, but in fact, racist jibes.

Notice how quickly he changed his tune re Trump, now that he has to toady up to him.

As for the quoted comments being clueless - how old is the man? A teenager can be excused on the grounds of immaturity; a man in his fifties ought to have learnt to put a sock in it by now.

Well of course I agree on that point. I have a very low opinion of the man. But I don't think it's likely that those comments can be blamed for a rise in anti-Muslim incidents, the terrorist incidents would be the cause. Not right, but it's sadly what happens.

Mittens Well of course I agree on that point. I have a very low opinion of the man. But I don't think it's likely that those comments can be blamed for a rise in anti-Muslim incidents, the terrorist incidents would be the cause. Not right, but it's sadly what happens.

There are all types of racists. There are the ones that we saw last Saturday, whom you might describe as 'extremists', and who are the type to react violently to things like terrorist incidents/statues being removed and then there are those quiet types who sit at home, thinking their racist thoughts, but knowing they shouldn't say them aloud. They probably resent this, use phrases like "political correctness gone mad" and invoke the death of Lee Rigby in their facebook rants, while saying 'all lives matter'. Johnson's comments makes those types think it's okay to make racist comments. If an elected PM gives voice to his racism, they are emboldened to give voice to their own. (see also 'bum boys'/homophobia.)

Equality means that everyone has to same rights, including demonstrating you can pick and choose who you support, but not who can demonstrate.

BaileysforBreakfast
If an elected PM gives voice to his racism, they are emboldened to give voice to their own. (see also 'bum boys'/homophobia.)

Here again, it is the left-wing/liberal media/MPs who are giving a voice to comments written in 1998. Why repeat them in 2020?

Extract from Pink News, the LGBT online newspaper;

"In Parliament, Boris Johnson was an early pro-LGBT rebel. Despite his early beliefs, Johnson’s legislative record is markedly more liberal."

"Elected to Parliament for the first time in 2001, Johnson rebelled against his own party on several occasions to back LGBT+ rights measures."

"Defying the Conservative leadership at the time, Johnson voted in 2003 to abolish Section 28, which banned the “promotion” of homosexuality in schools, and voted in 2004 to permit civil partnerships for same-sex couples."

"Alongside George Osborne and John Bercow, Johnson was one of just a handful of Tory MPs who were willing to back the Labour government’s LGBT+ reforms."

2016 - "The foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, has lifted a ban on UK embassies and high commissions flying the rainbow flag during gay pride events."

"In one of his first policy shifts since coming to office, Johnson overturned the decision of predecessor, Philip Hammond, who insisted that only the Union flag, the EU’s blue-and-gold flag and the flags of the nations and overseas territories of the United Kingdom could be flown from Foreign Office buildings."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/05/boris-johnson-lifts-ban-on-uk-embassies-flying-gay-pride-rainbow-flag

Thats really interesting Clav. Of course the Johnson critics on here I doubt will now admit that yes he supports the LGBT community and reforms. Let's focus on the fact he said bumboy 22 years ago as that fits their agenda.

Except no one but yourself mentioned bumboy on this thread!

How does that confirm that he's not racist?

@GetOffYourHighHorse

Thats really interesting Clav. Of course the Johnson critics on here I doubt will now admit that yes he supports the LGBT community and reforms. Let's focus on the fact he said bumboy 22 years ago as that fits their agenda.

Let’s take into account both. Most people are capable of holding more than one thought in their head at once. A voting record doesn’t negate previous use of homophobic language. Let’s not forget he has form for choosing sides on issues as and when he thinks it expedient.

@Peregrina

Except no one but yourself mentioned bumboy on this thread!

How does that confirm that he's not racist?

'If an elected PM gives voice to his racism, they are emboldened to give voice to their own. (see also 'bum boys'/homophobia.)'

As said by Bailey.

It doesn't confirm it but recent LGBT support is surely more relevant than a comment from 22yrs ago?

Peregrina
Quite clearly BaileysforBreakfast first mentioned the offensive word/s at 07:22 - last line.

Alsohuman
A voting record doesn’t negate previous use of homophobic language.

Well I don't want my soon to be 12 year old ds to hear these words - I can't understand why the liberals and lefties (who claim they are worried about homophobic language) keep repeating them.

Let’s not forget he has form for choosing sides on issues as and when he thinks it expedient.

"Alongside George Osborne and John Bercow, Johnson was one of just a handful of Tory MPs who were willing to back the Labour government’s LGBT+ reforms."

Highhorse
Let's focus on the fact he said bumboy 22 years ago as that fits their agenda.
Whether he is homophobic or not was not my argument. My point was that the terminology used by Johnson emboldens people to use similarly disparaging terminology themselves. I notice you haven't addressed that.

OK - missed that. But it's an aside after nearly 1000 posts. So it's not exactly 'keep repeating'.

And if Corbyn had said something like that, it would be dragged up ad infinitum - there would be no statute of limitations on what he said.