WTAF - Far right protests

[Poppi89]

I have just heard on the radio that far-right protesters will be out tomorrow in response to the BLM protesters. People are being urged not to be out in support of BLM tomorrow due to the aggressive nature of the far-right group and BLM protests are being cancelled because of them.

I am outraged by this. The BLM protesters are asking for people to not be killed due to the colour of their skin. They have rightly or wrongly made a decision to put themselves at risk of COVID-19 to help spread this message - a lot of people have called them idiots etc for doing this.

The far-right protests are now also protesting in large groups (but not in response to a murder) and are 'known' for being aggressive. How is this acceptable?

I would like to hear from anyone who is planning to join/agree with these far-right protests and their reasons why?

@xenia

2/3rds of BAME MPs are Labour (41) vs 22 Tory MPs. A fairly significant difference in overall BAME party support

I don’t think Priti Patel is racist just an appalling MP/Minister.

XDownwiththissortofthingX

Completely agree. Can't believe anyone could say the Tories (with their 'Go Home Immigrant' vans) have improved race relations.

Parker
Yes, she most definitely is, but if I showed you the evidence chances are you'd agree with her.
She certainly wants to eradicate us outcasts.

Parker, apologies wasn't calling you racist, just sometimes some people can't see she is racist.
Here is an example but I've lots of articles from around the end of last year.
www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/tories-accused-of-fanning-flames-of-racism-against-gypsytravellers-ahead-of-uk-election/

Not really. I was commenting on the fact those foods are bad for people.

“Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don't want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit 'tasty'. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you.”

― George Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier

YankeeinKingArthursCourt

I have looked at your link (as you asked me to) - that is regrettable if accurate.

However, there was an investigation into Boris Johnson's conduct and an independent panel found that he was “respectful and tolerant” and fully entitled to use “satire” to make his point in his column in August 2018 -

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/20/boris-johnson-cleared-over-burqa-comments

What your link doesn't mention is that a minor terrorist incident also occurred in London just over a week after Johnson's article was published - which may have contributed to the increase in hate crimes;

"Westminster car crash: Man arrested on suspicion of terror offences" -

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45180120

Your link does mention the major terrorist attacks that occurred the year before;

"The group added it should be noted that there were four major terrorist attacks in the UK in 2017, which led to sharp spikes of reported anti-Muslim hate incidents."

Also, the Rochdale grooming gang case featured in the headlines only 3 days after Johnson's article;

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/08/judges-uphold-decision-to-strip-rochdale-grooming-gang-members-of-citizenship

@Xenia

Not really. I was commenting on the fact those foods are bad for people.

I think the Tory party does a lot better than Labour with minorities - more female leaders (Labour has not managed even one), more people who aren't white in the cabinet etc etc. Few have done as much against racism in the last few years as the Tories.

I'm sure you think that people who ea rice crispies shouldn't be allowed to use the NHS funded by your generous and bountiful taxes.

Re implicit bias tests linked on this thread. The science behind those tests is proven to be flawed. The area of implicit bias training is a controversial one and there are many doubts of its efficacy. This should be more widely known. We need to find theories that stand up and solutions that work.

Maybe rice crispies/cocoa pops is some kind of metaphor?

Priti Patel is the daughter of Asian Ugandan refugees, kicked out by Idi Amin.

The first part is true. The second isn't. Her parents came to the UK in the 1960s. She was born on 29th March 1972, in London. Amin told the Asians to leave within 90 days in August 1972.

Uganda gained its Independence on 9th October 1962. Until then Whites had been the top dogs, with the Asians next and the black Africans at the bottom of the heap. I dare say that her parents could see the way the wind was blowing and got out.

Mass amnesia. How were those 2 women, both Prime Ministers, treated by their Party and how did they both ended their appointments? An excellent demonstration of how the Tory party treats minorities. Use them, abuse them, lose them.

I dare say that her parents could see the way the wind was blowing and got out.

More than that;

"Milton Obote's government [1966-1971] had pursued a policy of "Africanisation" which included policies targeted at Ugandan Asians.The 1968 Committee on the "Africanisation in Commerce and Industry", for example, had made far-reaching Indophobic proposals and a system of work permits and trade licenses was introduced in 1969 to restrict the role of non-citizen Indians in economic and professional activities."

@clavinova
Thank you for your response and for reading the article. I would say an increase in 370% of hate crimes is more than simply "regrettable".

The "panel" of 3 people also reported that his comments were deliberately "provocative". Many senior Tory MPs, Senior members of the Met, the Muslim Council of Britain, many members of the public who lodged formal complaints to the paper etc, certainly did not find the comments to be "respectful" or "tolerant", quite the opposite.

Johnson has a history of using divisive ( & deliberately "provocative") language in reference to BAME people. Obviously as a leader, his role is to be unifying & inclusive.

YankeeinKingArthursCourt
The "panel" of 3 people also reported that his comments were deliberately "provocative"

Where does it say "deliberately provocative"?

"the independent panel, chaired by Naomi Ellenbogen QC, found that while his use of language in the column could be considered “provocative”, it would be “unwise to censor excessively the language of party representatives or the use of satire to emphasise a viewpoint, particularly a viewpoint that is not subject to criticism”."

particularly a viewpoint that is not subject to criticism”

Surely any viewpoint is subject to criticism.

YankeeinKingArthursCourt

There is an article about Tell MAMA (the monitoring group who provided the data in your link) from 2013;

"A controversial project claiming to measure anti-Muslim attacks will not have its government grant renewed after police and civil servants raised concerns about its methods."

"The project, called Tell Mama, claimed that there had been a “sustained wave of attacks and intimidation” against British Muslims after the killing of Drummer Lee Rigby, with 193 “Islamophobic incidents” reported to it, rising to 212 by last weekend."

"The group’s founder, Fiyaz Mughal, said he saw “no end to this cycle of violence”, describing it as “unprecedented”.The claims were unquestioningly repeated in the media."

"Tell Mama and Mr Mughal did not mention, however, that 57 per cent of the 212 reports referred to activity that took place only online, mainly offensive postings on Twitter and Facebook, or that a further 16 per cent of the 212 reports had not been verified. Not all the online abuse even originated in Britain."

"Tell Mama supporters launched a furious campaign of protest against The Sunday Telegraph after it disclosed the breakdown last week, with round-robin emails to the newspaper accusing it of behaviour “better suited to the days of 1930s Germany”.

"However, The Sunday Telegraph has now learned that even before Woolwich, the communities minister, the Liberal Democrat MP Don Foster, called Mr Mughal to a meeting and said that Tell Mama’s grant would not be renewed." ...

“Mr Mughal was giving data on attacks to DCLG which wasn’t stacking up when it was cross-referenced with other reports by Acpo [the Association of Chief Police Officers],” said one source closely involved in counter-extremism." ...

"A senior Liberal Democrat source confirmed the sequence of events, saying: “There was a bit of a spat. He was called in and told that Acpo had cast doubt on his figures. He was told that he would be closely monitored for the remaining period of the grant and that there would be no more money.”

"Tell Mama has also been using its budget to threaten members of the public with libel actions for criticising it on Twitter" ...

www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/andrew-gilligan/10108098/Muslim-hate-monitor-to-lose-backing.html

Surely any viewpoint is subject to criticism

They meant of course that Johnson's viewpoint in the article was that the burka should not be banned - in contrast to the ban being introduced in Denmark at the time.

*Priti Patel is the daughter of Asian Ugandan refugees, kicked out by Idi Amin. Her father had to abandon his studies there and come to England where he bought a corner shop and worked long hours/ 7 days a week to house and feed multiple extended family members whilst Priti was born and lived above the shop. Her dad eventually owned a few newsagents and paid for Priti to go to Uni. At school Priti was regularly called a PXki. Now she is Home Secretary.

I would imagine that Priti has a great work ethic and has little time and empathy for people who have not got on like her family, whether they are white or of colour. It doesn't make her a racist. People are too quick to bandy this word about in the hope of shutting them up.*

Shes a racist because she espouses racist views and supports racist policies. Her background does not change that.

As a side note people who think it is ok to treat people like worthless pieces of shit on their shoe because they 'Havent got on' always seem to forget that we dont need 65m CEOs or politicians or project consultants or shop owners or middle managers. We do need many cleaners and warehouse staff and labourers and nursery workers and carers etc. The problem isn't the jobs or the people who do them 'not getting on'. They are not paid enough. The problem is rightwing capitalist society not valuing the people we actually need.

I don’t support any mass gatherings at the moment.

My theory is that the elite love all this in fighting we are doing at the moment because it takes the spotlight off them.

What if we all rallied together against years and years of oppression by the elite? If we all worked together instead of tearing each other apart? I think that’s when we would see real change.

a bit like BLM perhaps?

As I said, they weren't kicked out by Amin. They would have been able to see that that game was up for the British Empire and that they would no longer be welcome, but making a planned move to get out is not the same as being told to pack your bags and be gone in weeks. And no, you don't have to have a white skin to be racist.

Covid-19 should have taught us who is valuable. I personally can't see that Priti Patel herself makes a sterling contribution, however hard her parents worked. She is rubbish as a Cabinet member, having already once got the sack. She might be a perfectly good constituency MP who was over promoted, I wouldn't know.

Exactly, @XDownwiththissortofthingX

Well said, waffly.

@Clavinova
Again, thank you for engaging in the conversation. The Sunday Telegraph article (2013) re Tell Mama has been refuted b/c Tell Mama's govt funding was scheduled to end in 2013; it wasn't "taken away". Tell Mama is now independently funded ( as per their original agreements w/ the govt).

Since then, both the Met & the ACPO agree that there's been an increase in Islamaphobic attacks ( typically from Far Right groups).

Can you understand how the PMs comments about BAME people ( "pickaninnies, watermelon smiles, postboxes, bank robbers" etc) can be divisive? Can you see how these comments embolden Far Right groups? Can you see why they would act against BAME people? Do you feel that as PM, he has a responsibility to unify people?