To not pay SIL?

[basketcase1]

Basically...SIL is my childminder, she is a Sahm since her 2 dc were born. When I had my ds I was going to put him in nursery and she offered to have him daily and I would pay her a fee. This fee was only payable when he went (so if he was sick- no payment, and during holidays - no payment) I am a teacher so it worked really well for us! I paid her cash ( so it was extra cash for her and it was much cheaper for me!)

When all of this Covid 19 kicked off, schools were shut and now I am home. I am managing with DS at home as he is 18months and still naps. Obviously, now that I am home I don't need childcare so I wasn't paying SIL (as per agreement). All fine, but now dh is saying (even though his pay has been reduced) that we need to pay SIL something as this has been going on too long! They are not hard up as such, her dh is in banking and is still working.
SIL has never mentioned anything to me...so imo all is fine and the agreement we had still stands- no attendance = no pay!
DH is becoming adamant and is bringing it up daily at this rate.
So...AIBU to not pay her!??

@sillysmiles
They totally do. But it's often "I just give them money to pay for the food/petrol etc. I'm not paying them; I'm just giving my kids money to spend when they are with them" but the money really is a payment for childcare.

She is my dh's sister. @Bishybarnybee but our household income has dropped!

if you are using her more than 2 hours a week she needs to be registered its a legal requirement - (especially if your dc is under 8 unless the law has changed dramatically & from memory even when I didn't earn enough I had to notify HMRC that I wasn't earning enough - please correct me if I am wrong)

No I wouldn't. If she does want holiday and furlough pay perhaps she should get a legit job instead of illegal cash in hand work.

& sil isn't part of your household so of course its a legal requirement -as stated try explaining this to HMRC or OFSTED

Now that the OP has stated several times that she is not in the UK, perhaps people need to stop telling her how many UK laws she is breaking?

She decided to work for cash and forgo the protection of working legally, which brought her some short-term advantages. You are forgoing the breaks you might get from employing someone legally. How does that make the current situation your responsibility?

@AJPTaylor. It is illegal. You are right that you cannot register as a childminder if the only child/children are relatives however remote. If you are a registered childminder and mind family children you cannot get the 2/3/4 year old funding for them and the parents cannot claim childcare tax credits for their children that you mind as they are family and as previously stated government expect you to do it for nothing.
Your friend can look after your child for 1 hour and 58 minutes I believe as long as you don't pay them. If you buy them a bar of chocolate or a bunch of flowers then they are deemed to be childminding them as this is considered payment.
If your friend looks after your child and in return you look after theirs you are both childminding. A few years ago there was a case of 2 police women who decided to look after each others children whilst on opposite shifts. They got taken to court as this was deemed illegal.

mumwon how do you know the law in the OP's country?

Get your DH to talk to his sister instead of you. There's no point in him having the same conversation with you every day, that would drive me nuts. And/or send her a text asking her to call him to talk about whether or not she wants payment as he has been telling you that he is getting vibes from her DH. Don't get sucked into any conversation, keep batting it back to them to sort out between them.

@foamrolling I asked her to come to me with a price and she said that as the going rate and she was happy with it.

@Soontobe60 she is a wonderful person who was a nurse prior to having her own dc. My DS gets to play with his twin cousins who are only 6 months older than him. She has ample space and knowledge of child development. They have a blast!! And although her dh earns a good wage they have twins which would be a high childcare bill for them had she gone back to work. Once they go to school they will attend the school I teach in and I have said to her that I will take them to and from school and mind them after if she intends on going back to work. Our arrangement is not exploiting her...she offered and is happy to do it.

@mumwon we are NOT in the U.K.

Apologies but what are the laws in your country because many countries do have similar or even stricter rules... (I can think of 2 other countries that this is definitely the case & most countries are quite tough on tax & earnings)

I find it hard to believe you didn't think to offer something
I really don't. You had an agreement where you dont pay her when the child isn't being minded by her so why would you pay when there's no minding? I agree to leave your dh with it, say if you want to go for it go for it

@mumwon you can mind up to 3 children in your own home here without being registered and you can earn up to €15k without tax.

Why has this thread been derailed so quickly by so many judgmental people. OP never asked whether you agree with what she’s doing with re; to letting her SIL mind her DC, so why do you feel the need to spread your malicious and negative opinions. She’s perfectly happy with her arrangement, she’s just asking whether we think she should be continuing to pay SIL. Those of you coming on here and piping up about it being “illegal” or “immoral” or that shes “exploiting SIL”, I truly hope that not ONE of you has ever ever done anything remotely questionable in your lives, and if you have, I hope people have lambasted you in the same way that you are with the OP. Absolutely pathetic.

OP ignore them. Threads like these have a danger of making people feel like utter shit and questioning their morality just because a few miserable old witches on mumsnet think you should triple your childcare fees “just because”. You’re not harming anyone with what you’re doing. You’re happy, DC is happy, SIL is happy. Carry on.

Oh and btw, in reference to your original question, I don’t think you should continue to pay her as the arrangement and it’s flexibility suits you both. I presume that if SIL goes away or is poorly and can’t have DC for whatever reason, You don’t expect her to find a replacement childminder. It’s mutually beneficial, she gets cash for looking after her nephew (which I fully believe also benefits her DC) and presumably is happy to do so otherwise wouldn’t have suggested it in the beginning. However, as a PP suggested, maybe a token gift would be nice. If you start paying her now it’s a slippery slope as who knows when she will be able to start looking after DC again...

I think the way to solve this whole issue is to talk to your SiL and ask her what she thinks. Only way to sort it out without it being just speculation.

If I were the SIL then I wouldn't expect to be paid when the kid wasn't there. If I did then I would expect to lose that job because the mother would just get another minder. It suits both of them.
Everyone has lost jobs and money over Covid.
This is the husband feeling guilty or his brother finding something to get narked over.
Why doesn't your DH ask her about it if he's so feckin concerned? He's a paid up Equal Share in the parenting of your child.

Ask your DH will he be wanting money from his brother for you giving lifts to and from school in two years time?

Thank you everyone, I may just get her a nice gift or two. She knows she is very much appreciated, we have a good relationship. Things have obviously changed a lot since Covid but she has never mentioned a thing to me over the phone. We talk once a week usually but mostly to let the dc see each other over the phone. We will be meeting up soon so I will bring the gifts then. I have spoken to dh, and as a pp said I think he was just caught up with emotions (as she is his sister) and he thought she was getting a raw deal. He assured me nothing was said, he saw her briefly a few weeks ago to fix a tap and pipe in their house and she said "oh thank god it was fixable, the last thing we need is to fork out for major plumbing repairs" he got all caught up in the comment and ran away with it (As he does al too well...he's a right softie!)

I would just get her something v nice as a gift & say you appreciate the arrangement & the excellent childcare she gives. This arrangement to date, and if it continues longterm, will likely save you a small fortune in the long run as external care is v expensive. It would be no harm to nuture your r'ship & maybe at least bring it up as ypu don't want any level of resentment creeping in.

And don't mind the naysayers abt 'illegal' activity.... just piling on to be negative.

I think that your DH has over-reacted to the comment made about the plumbers and read more into it than there is.

If I was you, I'd get her some gift vouchers (Amazon?) , pop them in a card with a note saying that you wanted her to treat herself, and appreciate her being there, and you're looking forward to getting back to normal.

Then she feels appreciated, can spend the vouchers on whatever she wants/needs, you feel you've done a nice gesture, and DH is off your back!

Families/friends do this all the time, no need for all the "it's illegal" comments!

Sounds like you've got a good arrangement, suits you both.

It is illegal. You arnt allowed to accept cash or gifts/items for childcare. I trained to be a childminder a few years back.

I just wanted to clarify - I dont particularly mind what other people do with their buisness. I think shes got away without paying tax and doing relevant insurance etc. You've got away paying I asume a reduced fee. Win win. Unfortunately the pandemic has stopped her wage. It was always a risk, even if unlikely.

I wouldnt pay. I have a similar agreement with my childminder re: only pay when go. As she childminded me and is more a mum than childminder. I pay her when my children go, if.they dont, she doesnt get paid. She is registered so has of course got the gov Grant's.

@em90792 we are not in the U.K. it is not illegal here.

Just speak to her.