To not pay SIL?

[basketcase1]

Basically...SIL is my childminder, she is a Sahm since her 2 dc were born. When I had my ds I was going to put him in nursery and she offered to have him daily and I would pay her a fee. This fee was only payable when he went (so if he was sick- no payment, and during holidays - no payment) I am a teacher so it worked really well for us! I paid her cash ( so it was extra cash for her and it was much cheaper for me!)

When all of this Covid 19 kicked off, schools were shut and now I am home. I am managing with DS at home as he is 18months and still naps. Obviously, now that I am home I don't need childcare so I wasn't paying SIL (as per agreement). All fine, but now dh is saying (even though his pay has been reduced) that we need to pay SIL something as this has been going on too long! They are not hard up as such, her dh is in banking and is still working.
SIL has never mentioned anything to me...so imo all is fine and the agreement we had still stands- no attendance = no pay!
DH is becoming adamant and is bringing it up daily at this rate.
So...AIBU to not pay her!??

I'd be wondering if BIL was financially abusive, and have a quiet chat with SIL - perhaps meet up at appropriate distance so she can keep in touch with DS?

If she is not a registered childminder she should not be charging you.
The government /Ofsted expect family /extended family to do this for nothing.
If someone is working as a childminder when they are not registered both they and they parent of said child can be liable for a fine of up to £10,000. each.

@christmassausages I pay her €30 per day from 8.30 - 3.00.

Ah, just seen that you are not in the UK so forget last message and talk directly to SIL.

@notthemum we are not in the uk. Ofsted does not apply.

And now upon reading I am shocked that you can't have this arrangement in the U.K... they really do try their best to make it hard for families to help each other out don't they!!😮

Outside the UK, you might want to check if there are any laws about informal family childcare, paid or unpaid and how taxes apply, eg on a household or individual basis before worrying about the legality or otherwise.

Even in the UK, it's OK to pay 'expenses' without affecting tax, benefits or being illegal, and while 30 euro per day or equivalent is borderline, when you take food and drink, entries to attractions, nappies, wipes, washing, toys, craft items, bus fares etc into account, small amounts paid could equally be seen as expenses rather than actual renumeration for work done.

I wonder if this is just your DH's insecurities showing? He has a gut reaction of not wanting to look like you are in financial trouble to the BIL in banking and subconsciously decides he has to throw money around. This is the kind of thing my DH would do. Talking about his emotions usually resolves the situation. He never used to notice on his own he was doing it but a little light questioning from me on how he feels would quickly result in him spotting his own lunacy.

I can only explain it as a deep male feeling of emasculation by money issues and then feeling an urge to do some chest beating so the stronger males don't spot his weakness. 🙄

I know this is off-topic, for those in the UK saying this is illegal - does that actually mean no one does it?

I agree with barbara...the money you give really just covers expenses so cant see why "mn police" are all over it

Let dh offer. If he agrees an amount that is unaffordable then there is an issue but before that point i would allow him to make sure his sister doesnt feel you are taking advantage.

Also longer term you are getting an excellent deal from SIL. Understand the term time arrangement, but a bit bold/cheeky to dock her wages when you cancel because son is sick.

But is it illegal? Looking at the guidelines you cannot register if the only children you look after are related to you, including uncle/aunt. When my oldest 2 we're little, I paid a friend to collect them from school and have them for 2 hours......the gossip in the playground generated by childminders was that this was Illegal, when it was no such thing.

I think that your DH is right.You had an arrangement that was already hugely in your favour compared with a commercial one. You shouldn't take advantage. If she declines your offer, fine but you should offer to pay at least half. You are still be paid.

You're a teacher. Your pay is unaffected by Covid.

I am in a job where I can work from home. My pay has been unaffected by Covid. I have paid my cleaner as normal throughout, while we did our own cleaning.

I asked my hairdresser if she needed me to pay for a couple of haircuts. She said no, but thanks for offering.

In your position, I would offer something - maybe normal pay, maybe half pay. She may or may not accept it. I have more respect for your husband's viewpoint than yours on this one.

I get the argument about her not being registered - but you were happy enough to use her as childcare on that basis. You said yourself it was much cheaper for you.

I'm not sure if she is your husband's sister, or married to your husband's brother? Either way, this has potential to affect your husband's relationship with his family quite badly.

I would tell DH that this is clearly an arrangement that will cause too much friction in the long term, so you will seek registered childcare for your child and take SIL out of the equation completely.

@Murraygoldberg, i regularly babysit for my DD's (who I provide childcare for) friends. I'm now not because the pubs/cinema is closed. Should I be paid a retainer?

It's the exact same situation. Informal, but regular.

OP, no you don't have to pay her anything. If you do, it comes out of your DH's portion of the household budget. He could offer her a percentage.

Is that quite a cheap rate for where you are? Its a bit callous to say that's what she gets for working illegally if you've also benefited from it. I'd work out what you pay on average and then deduct a percentage relevant to your own income drop. I think it's a bit shit to just shrug your shoulders over it when it's your own sil.

[quote basketcase1]@LagunaBubbles it is not Illegal 🙄[/quote]
www.gov.uk/guidance/childminders-and-childcare-providers-register-with-ofsted/registration-exemptions
According to this, she should be registered.

It is an adhoc arrangement between family . I had the same. No way would I want to paid during this. As well as not expecting to be paid over summer. This is the only reason I did do it , to help family , token payment and no registering as childminder . SIL is not relying on income as it is already a PAYG arrangement.

I’m a childminder usually if i can’t work I don’t charge luckily most of my parents have ignored this through lockdown and have paid half or full. I’d give her something.

@basketcase1

And now upon reading I am shocked that you can't have this arrangement in the U.K... they really do try their best to make it hard for families to help each other out don't they!!😮

Do you not think that your child deserves to be looked after by someone who is registered? Who's had first aid training, safeguarding training? Understands child development? Has relevant insurance in place should your child have an accident whilst in her care? You're a teacher, so are clearly educated. Whilst your SIL may well be perfectly capable of looking after your child, let's not pretend that your arrangement is exploiting her.

Your agreement was that you don't pay your sister in law if your baby doesn't go to hers. Has she said anything to you about losing money or is she happy keeping to the original arrangement? I imagine the latter or you would have heard.

It's up to you what you do, maybe you could give her something to show appreciation and recognition of the fact her income has decreased; I very much doubt she expects that but you do need to communicate. Flipping heck, It's not even quite three months since lockdown!

@SillySmiles. No it certainly doesn't mean that "no one does it" but if they get caught the fine is huge.
It used to be 1k each (good few years ago) but last time I looked about 2/3 years ago it was 10k each so who knows what it is now.

@AJPTaylor I am not in the U.K.!!

Jesus - 'illegal' …. as if anyone would be interested in an aunt looking after her nephew a few hours a week. How could they possibly prove that cash had been exchanged.

OP you've got a nice arrangement going on there, I think it's lovely that your DS spends so much time with his cousins. I think I would offer a token gesture, whether that's cash or a gift.