To think that Emma Watson is no feminist

[HermioneWeasley]

So after JKR published her incredibly powerful essay and disclosed being a survivor of domestic abuse and sexual violence, Emma decides to tweet that trans women are women. Emma doesn’t condemn the misogynist abuse and threats of sexual violence that JKR has received, nor is she concerned about the facts JKR has shared of an over 4000% increase in girls being referred to gender clinics, or how autistic girls are disproportionately represented.

What is Emma’s “feminism” for exactly?

You cant believe that woman should have equal rights if you think that they dont even have the right to define themselves separate from those born male . That's the point. It's like saying vegetarians eat chicken. Facts matter. Words have meanings. The biology of women and girls is what has them denied treatment if men dont approve. It has them dying in menstruation huts and it has them thrown on trash heaps at birth to die. It has nothing to do with how they identify. And everything to do with their sex. You cant possibly believe women deserve equality if you think their very definition has to be run past men first.

They are not more likely to be a rapist because they are transgender

Lucky no one said that

They are not more likely to be a rapist because they are transgender, I suppose that's my point.

No, they are more likely to be a rapist because they are male. That's my point.

I also accept that there will be a tiny tiny minority who will claim to be transgender when they are not but I think this is true of any group and can't be avoided.

What is the difference between a 'genuine' transwoman and 'a man claiming to be a woman'? And how are women supposed to tell who the genuine transwomen are?

Emma Watson believes transwomen are women. She is a feminist because she believes women should have equal rights and be equal to men.

You can't campaign for women's rights if you can't even define what a woman is, and that is where Emma rather falls flat on her face.

*JK Rowling is a middle aged woman with significant life experience. The cast of Harry Potter have all lived bizarre cosseted lives removed from reality. JK has experience domestic violence and poverty and can identify with the issues that TWAW causes - ie male predators accessing vulnerable women. The cast of Harry Potter, with their arrested social development have no empathy as they cannot imagine life on an NHS mental health ward or in a women's prison.

"Let them eat cake" for 2020. Wake up wokeys your hatred of the poor and vulnerable is showing again.*

Yes this. I didn't understand how important it was to be a feminist until I started work - straight out of my PhD and into the civil service in the macho world that is Westminster. The simple reason is that I had spent my life in a spoiled little bubble where I was young, pretty, indulged ams cosseted. I had no idea of the real world ams the hundreds of little jokes, comments, humiliations that I would have have endure every day just because I was a women.

Trans women are prejudiced against in our society. They are isolated, suffer mental health issues and their lives are far from easy. I support them in their fight to win equality.

But they are not women.

@enderthedragon I would be interested to see data on violent crimes of transwomen Vs men. I don't know if this exists as I know transwomen.crimes are sometimes now reported as women.

Just because Emma Watson's definition of woman is different from yours doesn't automatically mean she is wrong and you are right. Surely you can see it's more nuanced than that.

What is the difference between a 'genuine' transwoman and 'a man claiming to be a woman'? And how are women supposed to tell who the genuine transwomen are?

I will answer this assuming it to be a genuine question. A real transwoman or transman suffers from gender dysphoria. Women cannot tell who is a genuine transperson. Neither can men, neither can non binary people. It may surprise you to know we are also unable to tell who is genuinely a certain age or genuinely works in a certain profession. There are loads and scammers in every walk of life. No more in the transgender world than anywhere else. Thankfully the vast majority of human beings are not scammers and liars and it's generally acknowledged that it would be wrong to live assuming everyone is lying to you.

Just because Emma Watson's definition of woman is different from yours doesn't automatically mean she is wrong and you are right. Surely you can see it's more nuanced than that

Its actually pretty simple given an ultrasound is all that's needed for some babies to be aborted on the basis of being found to be a girl. It's pretty damn simple when you dont want a girl.

Emma Watson identifies as a feminist....

Ok so this is something I’ve been burning to ask but have been to afraid to do so because I don’t want to overstep the mark, but if I as a white person decided that I should have been born a non white person and went out into the community with black makeup on my face and accused anyone that found that offensive as being a bigot and then made a scene when the didn’t take my personal stories about my black oppression seriously, then that would be fucking out of order right? This is the same, surely?

I will answer this assuming it to be a genuine question. A real transwoman or transman suffers from gender dysphoria. Women cannot tell who is a genuine transperson. Neither can men, neither can non binary people. It may surprise you to know we are also unable to tell who is genuinely a certain age or genuinely works in a certain profession. There are loads and scammers in every walk of life. No more in the transgender world than anywhere else. Thankfully the vast majority of human beings are not scammers and liars and it's generally acknowledged that it would be wrong to live assuming everyone is lying to you.

Well first of all, saying that trans people have gender dysphoria is generally seen as transphobic these days I believe. Because its not a mental illness, just like being gay isn't a mental illness....

No, women can't tell who are the genuine transwomen can they? So what, we just let all males who claim they 'identify as women' into women's spaces and if some of them harm women, well that's just tough shit on the women?

98% of sexual offences are carried out by men. Men, as a class, a high risk. Women, as a class, are low risk. Most people recognise this, even if it is unconsciously. It is for this reason that we have some single sex spaces for women, that men are not allowed into. So at what point does a male who 'identifies as a woman' come out of the high risk category of male and go into the low risk category of female, and is therefore OK to be into the female safe space? Is it if they have had full surgery? Top surgery? Hormones? Long hair? Makeup? A dress? Or is it just when they declare that they 'identify as a woman'?

You might find this website of interest.

transcrimeuk.com/

Just because Emma Watson's definition of woman is different from yours doesn't automatically mean she is wrong and you are right. Surely you can see it's more nuanced than that.

Emma Watson's only possible definition of woman is 'anyone who identifies as a woman'. Which is horseshit from the start because its a circular definition.

Once upon a time the only way women could get ahead in Hollywood was if they were prepared to suck cock. And everyone knew about it, but no one said anything because they didn't want to rock the boat.

Then MeToo happened and everything changed.

Except it didn't, did it?

I'm not sure we've really moved on if Hollywood actors are not condemning people telling JKR to suck their lady dick and are quite prepared to stand by the idea that transwomen are what they say they are, therefore lesbians should suck dick or are bigoted because they are too spineless to call it out as abuse of lesbians. Everyone knows that sex still exists even if you don't want it to. It's just no one wants to say this and rock the boat...

Hollywood has got a long track record of turning a blind eye.

Nothing has changed since MeToo.

Frozen It may surprise you to know we are also unable to tell who is genuinely a certain age or genuinely works in a certain profession. There are loads and scammers in every walk of life. No more in the transgender world than anywhere else.

Thing about that is, if you misrepresented yourself as a different age or misrepresented yourself as being of a certain profession to officialdom, you may be prosecuted for fraud. No way of changing your birth cert/ passport etc. documentation for those things to create a new reality. Unless you are that age or have those profession qualifications. You can't be a member of the professional bodies either, unless you are what you say you are. With proof. You can't say you simply have a right to do so and tell everyone to budge up.

My husband finally got it when I took off my clothes, waited for his eyes to light up and then said, "Actually, I'm a man. Yes, I am a man because I say so. You are now gay."

Just because Emma Watson's definition of woman is different from yours doesn't automatically mean she is wrong and you are right. Surely you can see it's more nuanced than that
No, there is no nuance, no ambiguity.
A woman is an adult human female.
Not feelings in a man's head.
No nuance at all.

She’s a third wave feminist ... she can go fuck off

Everyone knows that sex still exists even if you don't want it to

Yep they know exactly who to harass on Twitter. Even the MAPS get a free pass of theres women with an opinion to dox/threatening/ report to police.

They also know who to not allow into the masons even when they identify as men. Men of course can stay in the masons even of they transition.

Since the dawn if time they have known who to deny the right to vote, who to abort or kill at birth. Who to rape. Who to pin down and slice , who to marry off at 12.

Only when women said no to sharing their space was there suddenly a huge confusion over what a woman even is.

Why are we expected to believe something that they very clearly even dont. Cos if they did they would treat them exactly how they treat us..by blocking or ignoring or banning. Instead even jessica yaniv gets a free pass on twitter while megan Murphy gets booted off.

Just because Emma Watson's definition of woman is different from yours doesn't automatically mean she is wrong and you are right. Surely you can see it's more nuanced than that.

If transwomen are women, why can't women be transwomen?

The fact we can disguish a different is because...?

If we can not define sex we also can give legal protection to either women nor trans people because there is nothing to define them, apart from using gendered stereotypes on the way men and women are traditionally supposed to dress. Aka sexist views about masculine and feminine ideals.

Emma Watson can not be right in her opinion not because I'm being an arse about it or merely disagree with her, but because if you do not have sex as a definition the language of describing things and people evaporates. Medical knowledge and treatment appropriate for men and women disappears and degrades in quality. The ability and opportunity for females to compete in sport competitively vanishes. Discrimination in the workplace against women because they may or may not have children becomes invisible. Women lose political representation and they lose career opportunities at the highest levels because gender ratios are used instead of sex ratios. The gender pay gap can be fixed merely by having enough Self Iders. Now why wouldn't that be attractive to an unscrupulous employer? Here have an extra couple of £1000 to use the right pronouns so I don't have to employ too many women and worry about costly inconveniences like maternity cover ever again.

If women are not centred because of the barriers that sex brings them, then you can not be being feminist. If woman becomes a concept rather than a physicality, it waters down what opportunities, protections, specialist services and medical research women have that serve their sex based needs.

For example: How can you study the impact of the menopause on the body without recognising sex, and excluding male samples from your research which may complete screw up results? There are enough cases of transwomen claiming they have had periods and gone through menopause to realise that, no this suggestion isn't as nuts and out there as you might think. Sadly.

JKR said that we need to always see sex cos sex is an important part of how humans interact and whilst people might identify a certain way sex still remains important to them even if they don't realise it. This isn't controversial. This is an acknowledgement of how our natural state of being isn't something we can change because we feel entitled to or because we somehow feel its wrong. Denial about this, won't fix internal identity conflicts and issues. It merely surpresses them and places a burden on society to try and maintain that denial no matter how strong the evidence is to the contrary. It solves no one's problems. And that is to the detriment of both women and transwomen.

She has utterly sold out any claim to the term. The contrast between JKR, who has experienced real sex-based hardship and trauma in her life, and the coddled, privileged bubble EW's feminism has grown in could not be starker. It looks like a cold, brittle place full of hashtags and little else. I am definitely past hollow celebrity feminism.

Emma Watson believes transwomen are women

She is wrong in that belief. It astonishes me that it needs any explanation really, but here's one really easy example. If a trans woman caught covid 19, would their risk of death be the same as a woman's or a man's?

If a trans woman caught covid 19, would their risk of death be the same as a woman's or a man's?

This is actually an interesting point. Trans women are still genetically male. They have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome and all the physiology that comes with that. They are, therefore, as a genetic male less likely to have breast cancer, not able at all to have ovarian, cervical, endometrial cancer. They are more likely to develop prostate cancer and are more susceptible to colorectal cancer.

That's just cancer. Other conditions too are associated with increased or decreased risk according to biological sex. There is anecdotal evidence that heart attacks may present differently in women (and thus less likely to be diagnosed).

More importantly trans women started their life and probably went through puberty as men. That's a different experience to girls and women.

As far as I am concerned (and I said it on the other thread), Emma Watson (along with DR and ER) came out to comment. She (and they) turned a blind eye and ignored the misogynistic hate, viciousness and threats directed at a woman. In my opinion this is condoning that treatment of women. That is a fellow traveller of misogyny. Or useful idiot. All the author's own personal views.

I think she was born in the wrong time and she would have been even more useful to the anti suffragette faction. Maybe along the fictional lines of These men say they are women and they can vote, so women already have the vote.

Trans women are still genetically male. They have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome and all the physiology that comes with that. They are, therefore, as a genetic male less likely to have breast cancer, not able at all to have ovarian, cervical, endometrial cancer. They are more likely to develop prostate cancer and are more susceptible to colorectal cancer.

Exactly. Covid kills males at a much higher rate than females. Saying trans women are women is dangerously incorrect and scientifically nonsensical. If I identify as as a black African American man would my risk of lung cancer be that of a black African American man or a white woman?

That's without even getting into the discussion about the need to protect women's safe spaces.

There is so much egocentrism on this thread. Yes, words have meanings, but definitions change all the time. Feminism has been debated, along with its meanings and implications, for centuries. It's arrogant to assume that any one person has the definitive answer now or that anyone who disagrees with the majority definition is wrong.

It is possible for two feminists to disagree on a fundamental point about women, in the same way that it's possible for two Labour activists to disagree on policy.

Never assume that because someone thinks differently, they have no knowledge - J. K. Rowling

There is a reason people often think actors aren't very intelligent. They are reading the words written by others, and it seems that they have equated their strong abilities in expressing those words visually with a strong ability to understand and interpret words intellectually...