Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That Eddie Redmayne is a self serving privileged prick?

289 replies

IJumpedAboardAPirateShip · 11/06/2020 08:11

Where was he when he took the part in the Danish Girl that could have gone to a trans woman and elevated an actor who otherwise has no options open to them? AIBU in thinking Eddie Redmayne is jumping on a misogynistic bandwagon when he doesn’t actually give a shit about trans people or their rights?

FWIW I do believe there’s a world where women’s rights and trans rights can live side by side and support each other but it speaks volumes that the cis-rich-White-Male-heterosexual parade comes out and tries to antagonise a situation between two social groups that their particular social
Group has oppressed and abused and dehumanised and humiliated for thousands of years? Daniel Radcliffe is no better - his response to the original JKR tweet even only refers to transwomen and doesn’t even mention transmen!!!

They say they all need to just listen and be educated when it comes to racism but when it comes to feminism they tell women to sit down and shut up while they mansplain and admonish, fuck them

OP posts:
Genevieva · 11/06/2020 12:56

@Clymene it is possible to profoundly disagree with someone on a topic, but recognise their talent and good manners.

I happen to be with JK Rowling in believing that trans people are trans people. They have the same biological sex they had at birth. Biological sex is a fact and is not something assigned. No amount of presentation or surgery can change that. To me any suggestion that we are not our bodies is manifestly incorrect. However people can be ill at ease with their bodies and they clearly need medical and societal help with that. There are also real risks of men who are not truly trans using the trans label to position themselves either to harm women or to walk roughshod over women's rights. All of these issues need taking seriously.

Personally, I don't think a tweet is the place for complex discussions about any medical problems or discrimination issues, but it seems to be the thing to do these days and famous people are criticised for not doing it, so they have to condense their views into soundbites.

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 11/06/2020 12:58

DifficultLemon has failed to return with examples, so we have no way of knowing if she genuinely stands by her assertions. But silence speaks volumes.

GarlicSoup · 11/06/2020 12:59

@ShiveringCoyote

Amazing how all these men need to speak out against this brave woman speaking about periods but when women are raped, murdered, mutilated, trafficked, married off as children, denied basic healthcare there is radio silence. Funny that.
Well said @ShiveringCoyote
DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 11/06/2020 13:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 11/06/2020 13:05

DifficultLemonhas failed to return with examples, so we have no way of knowing if she genuinely stands by her assertions. But silence speaks volumes.

Sorry, my children needed lunch. Hope that's ok Confused

theonlywayisapple · 11/06/2020 13:06

I won’t give examples as you’d accuse me of lying

stayathomer · 11/06/2020 13:10

Sometimes people weigh in just trying to help. They don't necessarily fight for a cause all the time because it doesn't impact them. I know I do it, it doesn't mean I have to talk about that issue all the time. Also I find it funny that when these threads come up on mn about women they're shut down because it's not in the spirit on mn, but any trans or men bashing posts just go on. Most people's problems with any of the Harry Potter crowd is that they're a well off privileged set. If you look at most of the J K Rowling replies they're 'well look at you sitting in your ivory tower' even though it's known she was poor! And if Eddie Treymeyne hadn't taken the Danish girl job, I'm so sorry but chances are it would have been a kind of art house non funded film. They need names!

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 11/06/2020 13:14

You say "real life" and "lived experience" as if they are different things

Real life and online life are pretty different in my world.

Do you think it is excusable for them to have said that to her? Should they be punished?

Anyone who harassed or threatens another should lose their job and be punished.

My original point is that people who defend transgender people are shouted down as being uneducated, ill informed, accused of not knowing anything, drinking the kool aid etc, why cant they be totally informed, looked into everything, and simply came to a different conclusion than others?

I stand by that, and I'll stand by the reality that women are also pretty damned nasty to transgender people too.

Collidascope · 11/06/2020 13:25

If transwomen are in fact women, then the Danish Girl role should have gone to a woman - any woman, because apparently we are all the same, biology be damned. So ER stole a much needed starring role from a woman.

Spot on. Why take a role from a marginalised group, whether that be from women or more specifically trans women? I guess Eddie is a TRA in the streets and a terf in the sheets and casting room.

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 11/06/2020 13:31

Sorry that happened to your loved one, DifficultPificult, hope they stay safe.
But can I just check - you started off saying 'abuse from feminists' and then changed it to 'women' (see, I read what you wrote!)

It sounds very much like the kind of shit I got for being a goth many years ago, simply from people (M and F) who didn't like anyone looking different. I'm pretty sure most of them hadn't read a book without pictures, let alone being familiar with the complete works of Germaine Greer. Are you sure this is a feminist thing?

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 11/06/2020 13:42

But can I just check - you started off saying 'abuse from feminists' and then changed it to 'women' (see, I read what you wrote!)

Although I cannot be 100% sure some of them were feminists, they were definitely using feminism as their reasoning for being so abusive. All of them were women.

I am a feminist, but I totally disagree that having a differing viewpoint on some aspects of feminism makes one less worthy than another.

There are very extreme views on both sides, there is middle ground that nobody is willing to acknowledge because neither extreme side wants to back down even a little bit.

Clymene · 11/06/2020 13:47

@Genevieva - personally I think it's extraordinarily bad mannered for a man to tell a woman she cannot talk about about her lived experience of being a woman. I also don't believe that, as a heterosexual man, married to a woman who he has had two children with, he truly believes transwomen are women, transmen are men. He can tell the difference.

Further, to make those comments without acknowledging the vicious abuse that jk Rowling received for saying that the word for people who menstruate is women is worse than bad mannered. It's cowardly and pathetic.

So no, he doesn't come out of this looking good. He looks like a self-serving privileged prick.

DisobedientHamster · 11/06/2020 13:51

Ultimately this is an argument between people who believe we are male or female based on our biological sex, and people who believe male and female is a state of mind. It should be possible to have this debate without all the violent hatred radiating from one side.

The human genotype is a debate? It exists. Sex chromosomes are real, not a state of mind.

Ninkanink · 11/06/2020 13:54

There is hatred and vitriol overwhelmingly from one side of this ‘debate’ here (hint: it’s not actually a debate).

Please don’t try to claim that there is any kind of equivalence, because there isn’t. If you can’t see that you need to do a lot more reading.

CockCarousel · 11/06/2020 13:56

There are very extreme views on both sides, there is middle ground that nobody is willing to acknowledge because neither extreme side wants to back down even a little bit.

I'd have to disagree there. Women are fighting to keep the rights they won, rights to privacy, safety and dignity. Male bodied people are fighting for access to women's spaces. What would you suggest the middle ground is? Should women just give some of those (hard fought for) rights away? Most women feel uncomfortable with male bodies in their space. Why is nobody listening to us when we say no?

SirVixofVixHall · 11/06/2020 13:57

A. Backing down a little bit would never be enough.
B. Backing down isn’t possible. You can’t give a little bit of women’s safety away. We either have a single sex space for women or don’t. You either keep sport single sex, or mix the sexes and watch women lose.
The only middle ground is having a mixed sex space alongside single sex spaces, but transactivists don’t want that, because they insist they are actual women in the heads, and therefore they must be women.

I feel incredibly sorry for young people and children caught up in this enormous lie, left with infertility and a permanently changed body, while adult men keep their genitals intact and enjoy their crushing of women.

Genevieva · 11/06/2020 13:57

@Clymene I haven't seen him say any of the thing. I have seen one short statement reported on the BBC. I don't agree with it, but I don't think it was rude.

SirVixofVixHall · 11/06/2020 13:57

*their heads, not the.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 11/06/2020 14:02

Please don’t try to claim that there is any kind of equivalence, because there isn’t. If you can’t see that you need to do a lot more reading.

Sure, my reality doesn't matter. As predicted.

I did say that what's happened in my life isnt representative of what happens online. Maybe you should also read more, preferably the posts that you are so eager to disagree with.

Ninkanink · 11/06/2020 14:30

Firstly Flowers to you and the person you care about. You’re speaking from a very personal perspective with a weighty emotional burden on behalf of your loved one and of course that will inform the words you use and the arguments you make for your position. I am speaking from my lived experiences and the weighty emotional burden of generations of women who have gone before and will come after, including my mother, myself and my daughters. My very personal perspective is no less powerful a motivation, nor any less valid, than yours. And sadly, there will always be some tension between the two positions, and between the rights of various groups and individuals existing within them. That is how rights and protections work: It is a balancing act.

I obviously do not agree with nor endorse any of those threatening, violent and abusive actions. I can’t comment on the specifics of each case because I wasn’t there and don’t know the context, and I wouldn’t wish to pronounce on something that isn’t in my direct experience. I also can’t make any in depth comment on the overall factors that might have played into it because I don’t know the sex or the chosen gender of that person, which does also have some bearing on where I would go in the broader discussion. But let me just say straight out that of course no one should face abuse or violence or intimidation simply by virtue of how they choose to present.

I’m also sure you realise that in fact many people who say they are feminist or think they are feminist are no such thing. Thus they absolutely don’t speak for me, we don’t stand together and I have nothing to do with their individual acts or behaviours.

And secondly, going back to the original discussion, women as a class come at life, from each individual experience right up to their cumulative life experience, from an extremely precarious position, far more dangerous to them than that of men as a class, and for that reason if they feel it necessary to protect their own interests with firm, angry, challenging voices and actions, that must always be okay. Whether that is in higher level discussion, or right down in the grassroots of life, where, yes, those words and actions might potentially be hurtful to individuals.

I’m sure you understand that there are many cases where it is right and valid for women and girls to be able to challenge who is in their space and why they are there. I’m sure that might painful for those who mean no harm. But women have a right to be safe. And since women are by far the most vulnerable class which is most often subjected to violence and rape, I will always argue for their right to be vocal and open about perceived threat, with an absolute right to challenge it.

No one has claimed that no individual women are abusive, violent or otherwise, that is clearly a ridiculous thing to say. But as we are having this discussion on feminist issues here and the class of men vs. the class of women in this specific arena it absolutely is not right to make the assertion you did. I do not appreciate my position in this discussion being likened to, and in fact straight out stated to be the literal and moral equivalent of the violent, abusive and dangerous agenda which I am against and which I challenge on behalf of women and vulnerable people of both sexes and gender identities on a daily basis. It is extremely offensive to the women here, who are not the women who said and did those things. Do not set me up as being for something which I am not in any way supportive of nor in any way implicated in simply by virtue of being a woman who is a feminist. We are not a hive mind, we do not all automatically stand together.

I have totally lost track of what I’m saying. Hopefully it makes some sense.

Again, as I’ve stated elsewhere, I always come into this discussion with the utmost compassion for anyone who is on the other side who is legitimately suffering. That pain absolutely is acknowledged.

Ninkanink · 11/06/2020 14:31

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Please don’t try to claim that there is any kind of equivalence, because there isn’t. If you can’t see that you need to do a lot more reading.

Sure, my reality doesn't matter. As predicted.

I did say that what's happened in my life isnt representative of what happens online. Maybe you should also read more, preferably the posts that you are so eager to disagree with.

That was not directed at you.

My reply to you has just been posted.

MockersGuidedByTheScience · 11/06/2020 14:48

Some people say the Earth is round. Others say it's flat. Let's have a polite debate.

Because gravity is not exactly how Newton describes it. The apple, in a sense, does not fall. The space between the apple and the ground folds up and the ground rises to meet the apple. Etc.

So therefore there's no such thing as gravity?

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 11/06/2020 14:52

Didn't Scarlett Johansson have to back away from playing a trans person? But ER can go right ahead. Different rules for women, see?

HandsOffMyRights · 11/06/2020 15:02

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Didn't Scarlett Johansson have to back away from playing a trans person? But ER can go right ahead. Different rules for women, see?
Correct. She experienced the same bullying as JK, mainly at the hands of men.
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 11/06/2020 15:12

So basically TRAs don't want what they call "cis" women to play any roles.

Swipe left for the next trending thread