That Eddie Redmayne is a self serving privileged prick?

[IJumpedAboardAPirateShip]

Where was he when he took the part in the Danish Girl that could have gone to a trans woman and elevated an actor who otherwise has no options open to them? AIBU in thinking Eddie Redmayne is jumping on a misogynistic bandwagon when he doesn’t actually give a shit about trans people or their rights?

FWIW I do believe there’s a world where women’s rights and trans rights can live side by side and support each other but it speaks volumes that the cis-rich-White-Male-heterosexual parade comes out and tries to antagonise a situation between two social groups that their particular social
Group has oppressed and abused and dehumanised and humiliated for thousands of years? Daniel Radcliffe is no better - his response to the original JKR tweet even only refers to transwomen and doesn’t even mention transmen!!!

They say they all need to just listen and be educated when it comes to racism but when it comes to feminism they tell women to sit down and shut up while they mansplain and admonish, fuck them

I am speaking from my lived experiences and the weighty emotional burden of generations of women who have gone before and will come after, including my mother, myself and my daughters. My very personal perspective is no less powerful a motivation, nor any less valid, than yours. And sadly, there will always be some tension between the two positions, and between the rights of various groups and individuals existing within them. That is how rights and protections work: It is a balancing act.

Thank you for your understanding

The trans debate is hugely personal to me, but I am also a woman, and a feminist, and I have daughters, I have also suffered at the hands of men, so the feminist debate is also hugely personal to me too.

It is extremely offensive to the women here, who are not the women who said and did those things. Do not set me up as being for something which I am not in any way supportive of nor in any way implicated in simply by virtue of being a woman who is a feminist. We are not a hive mind, we do not all automatically stand together.

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make about transgender people. Most do not stand with TRAs, yet are being denied access to various things that, not all that long ago, they were accessing peacefully, and now they are often, being abused, and also told to bugger off and fight for 'their own' support services because they aren't welcome, when they, clearly, have pressing needs right now. Your average transgender person just wants to get on with their life peacefully, but are all being lumped in with TRAs, and people who have jumped onto a very real issue for their own gain.

Believe me, some of us are asking for specialised support services, because, let's face it, transgender people do have a differing set of needs to your average women or men. But every single time theres a brick wall of "these services are set up already, use them", try to access them and there is rejection and abuse.

Transgender people are between a rock and a hard place. There is NO help.

It's possible to be against TRAs, be a feminist, and still support the rights of transgender people. They arent all mutually exclusive.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

I am speaking from my lived experiences and the weighty emotional burden of generations of women who have gone before and will come after, including my mother, myself and my daughters. My very personal perspective is no less powerful a motivation, nor any less valid, than yours. And sadly, there will always be some tension between the two positions, and between the rights of various groups and individuals existing within them. That is how rights and protections work: It is a balancing act.

Thank you for your understanding

The trans debate is hugely personal to me, but I am also a woman, and a feminist, and I have daughters, I have also suffered at the hands of men, so the feminist debate is also hugely personal to me too.

It is extremely offensive to the women here, who are not the women who said and did those things. Do not set me up as being for something which I am not in any way supportive of nor in any way implicated in simply by virtue of being a woman who is a feminist. We are not a hive mind, we do not all automatically stand together.

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make about transgender people. Most do not stand with TRAs, yet are being denied access to various things that, not all that long ago, they were accessing peacefully, and now they are often, being abused, and also told to bugger off and fight for 'their own' support services because they aren't welcome, when they, clearly, have pressing needs right now. Your average transgender person just wants to get on with their life peacefully, but are all being lumped in with TRAs, and people who have jumped onto a very real issue for their own gain.

Believe me, some of us are asking for specialised support services, because, let's face it, transgender people do have a differing set of needs to your average women or men. But every single time theres a brick wall of "these services are set up already, use them", try to access them and there is rejection and abuse.

Transgender people are between a rock and a hard place. There is NO help.

It's possible to be against TRAs, be a feminist, and still support the rights of transgender people. They arent all mutually exclusive.

This will have to be my last comment for a while. It’s a big subject, exhausting and demoralising and extremely emotive.

But I must address the comment you’ve made above as sensitively as possible, whilst still trying to be succinct.

Whilst I understand what you’re saying about the type of transgender individual you are referring to, and I agree that the way their position has been coopted is hugely unfair to them, it is not equivalent to comparing one type of woman who is a feminist to another and conflating them both and presuming that they stand together. The two situations are vastly different for several very important reasons, which I sadly can’t go into now. But I think if you look at the two positions as dispassionately as you can, you will know what I mean.

They also simply cannot expect, and should not expect, for many wholly valid reasons, access to existing sex segregated spaces. There is a very good reason (many, in fact) that we must be allowed to preserve our status as biologically female based on biological fact, and our hard-won safe spaces that women fought and died for, and all associated legal rights and protections. Regardless of how painful it is, and how difficult it is to accept that fact when you genuinely mean no harm, that is how it has to stay.

That does not in any way take away from their own rights to safe spaces, acceptance as individuals and protection from harm. Nor their own need for tailored help and support.

It is not feminism as I espouse it (although I fear that the term has been coopted to the extent that I may soon have to reject it altogether) nor feminism as a whole as evidenced by the vast materials on the topic here on MN, that has set these things up as mutually exclusive. One of these is absolutely not like the others, for a start. Transgender individuals’ rights to peacefully exist without fear of harm are just as important as women’s (and in fact all humans’) rights to those things, but they cannot be gained by appropriating women’s spaces.

Wishing you well.

Your average transgender person just wants to get on with their life peacefully, but are all being lumped in with TRAs, and people who have jumped onto a very real issue for their own gain.

So what are they doing about the TRAs who are the cause of all this?

As you say, transwomen quietly got on with it for years, and women were kind and accepting of them. Then male supremacy and TRAs saw an 'in' to gain access to womens spaces.

Are these average transpeople pushing back against the TRAs who have hijacked their pain for their own agenda alongside the women they claim to be? Or are they just blaming the women who are being forced into asserting boundaries?

Difficult thanks for sharing. You've very correctly hit on the fact that a trans person may need their own provision or conversation for some things, medical is one that springs to mind as is third spaces.

How does it make you and your partner feel to see powerful and well funded lobby groups, instead of putting their focus on this separate provision, instead pushing into those which are for biological women, in your partners name (and for real reasons)?

My question is genuine by the way, I hope it reads that way.

X posted with others who have a much better way with words

So what are they doing about the TRAs who are the cause of all this?

The same things as feminists are doing, and suffering from the same threats.

How does it make you and your partner feel to see powerful and well funded lobby groups, instead of putting their focus on this separate provision, instead pushing into those which are for biological women, in your partners name (and for real reasons)?

My loved one isnt my partner (although it does read like that, I'm just trying not to be too outing to myself)

It's frustrating, but, for now, we have to access the help and support that is there, as inadequate as it is for my loved ones particular circumstances, it's better than nothing at all. We try, we have tried, there are brick walls at every turn, and, for various reasons in our situation, certain things are time imperative so we need to access available help, and get abuse for it.

Whilst I understand what you’re saying about the type of transgender individual you are referring to, and I agree that the way their position has been coopted is hugely unfair to them, it is not equivalent to comparing one type of woman who is a feminist to another and conflating them both and presuming that they stand together. The two situations are vastly different for several very important reasons, which I sadly can’t go into now.

I am always willing to read, listen, and learn, and am open to all views, but, as far as I can see women implying they speak for all feminists and being abusive, and TRAs saying they speak for all transgender people and being abusive, are exactly the same.

Let’s also address the elephant in the room, because sadly, it needs to be said...

‘Your average transgender individual’ is no longer your average transgender individual. Do not make the mistake of thinking that the vast majority are necessarily of the type that just wants to exist peacefully and go about their own business.

If any of you who are new to this discussion want to know what current trans ideology looks like, perhaps read up on what behaviours apparently fall under this umbrella.

There is a reason why women are having to push back so forcefully on this.

Women did not cause this. Women are not to blame for this.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

So what are they doing about the TRAs who are the cause of all this?

The same things as feminists are doing, and suffering from the same threats.

How does it make you and your partner feel to see powerful and well funded lobby groups, instead of putting their focus on this separate provision, instead pushing into those which are for biological women, in your partners name (and for real reasons)?

My loved one isnt my partner (although it does read like that, I'm just trying not to be too outing to myself)

It's frustrating, but, for now, we have to access the help and support that is there, as inadequate as it is for my loved ones particular circumstances, it's better than nothing at all. We try, we have tried, there are brick walls at every turn, and, for various reasons in our situation, certain things are time imperative so we need to access available help, and get abuse for it.

Whilst I understand what you’re saying about the type of transgender individual you are referring to, and I agree that the way their position has been coopted is hugely unfair to them, it is not equivalent to comparing one type of woman who is a feminist to another and conflating them both and presuming that they stand together. The two situations are vastly different for several very important reasons, which I sadly can’t go into now.

I am always willing to read, listen, and learn, and am open to all views, but, as far as I can see women implying they speak for all feminists and being abusive, and TRAs saying they speak for all transgender people and being abusive, are exactly the same.

No the situations themselves are not comparable at all. Think about what one conclusion naturally leads to, and what the other conclusion naturally leads to. In terms of actual, material reality. Laws, legislation, natural and lasting consequences.

I am taking a wider view, from a much higher level perspective. There are overarching principles here.

I feel now is a good time to repost this excellent blog post by Jane Clare Jones to demonstrate how we got to the current position.

janeclarejones.com/2018/11/13/the-annals-of-the-terf-wars/

@Flapjak

Whats galling is these men telling women that trans women are women, end of. No discussion on what that statement means for actual women. I am finding the double standards of the 'liberal elite males' vomit inducing. Whist they are happy to own their white privilidge and be educated etc etc, in regards to racism, they do not ever state they have male priviledge and need to educate themselves about sexism and misogny .

I find their wokey blokey comments despicable. But I find the comments of liberal elite women such as Emma Watson even more despicable. One day, they will regret this public stance. That EW is an ambassador for women is an embarrassment.

The only trans people I see aggressively attacking J.K Rowling are transwomen

Strangely not seeing transmen being so aggressive

Odd that male aggression and entitlement isn’t lost though they feel they are women

@1forsorrow

Her comments that women menstruate? Is that the definition of being a woman? So I stopped being a woman when I had a hysterectomy?

Not a great definition.

You would have to be pretty fucking stupid to conclude this from what she said.

@1forsorrow

That isn’t what she said. She said people who menstruate are women which is 100% true. It is true that all people who menstruate are women.

She did not say that women who do not menstruate are not women.

Has nobody who attacks her read her essay??? It wasn't THAT long!

I'm sorry for my assumption. Who ever the person is it's clear you love and support them.

With respect though, women like myself and many on here are nothing like TRAs. I have never publicly or privately wished violent harm on another human being. I like many other women have been victim of sexual assault from a man, I'm sure most TRAs have not. My DD as she grows will be heckled, cat called and probably suffer unwanted sexual attention. TRAs will not. There are going girls right now as I type having their genitals mutilated in the name of faith or religion putting them at risk of severe injury or even death. With no chance of ever experiencing sexual pleasure. This isn't likely to happen to a TRA.

Our biology does matter.

@poorbuthappy

I can't get my head round if TWAW then it was ok for a bloke to play a TW but it wasn't ok for a woman....surely if TWAW then only a woman can play a TW?

I think you are wrong - I think it was highly appropriate that the male ER played a transwoman. As he is biologically male.

Who is Eddie Redmayne? What is s/he for and why are his/her opinions of any relevance? Never heard of him/her.

He's the main(?) actor in JKR's second series of films - the Fantastic Beasts. I liked the character he played. :)

That's the connection explained - not the relevance though!

Thanks Helmet. Still means nothing to me though! I'd better wander off.

Somehow ER sees himself qualified to tell JKR what she should and shouldn't think and say as a result of her biology and lived experience.

Thank goodness for men like him telling us all what it means to be female, eh?

None of these debates should happen on twitter. All the Harry Potter lot seem to have condensed something really complicated into a 5 second soundbite. None of them even had the decency to recognise her abuse and fears.

I think it was highly appropriate that the male ER played a

Yes, i was watching a comedy show featuring a transwoman character played by a woman

It grated on me

@justanotherneighinparadise

I think a lot of these people are contractually obligated to take a particular side on various social issues. For example if I still worked for my last employer i would have had to sign within my contract that I agreed with lots of principles I didn’t agree with as that was the stance of the organisation. Emma Watson isn’t just an actor, she has various contracts with all sorts of companies so even if she felt like siding with JKR, she couldn’t.

The likes of Eddie Redmayne and Daniel Radcliffe, well it’s even easier for those males to side with other predominantly young, white males as they have no lived experience. There’s no emotional reaction to the claims they support.

so, despite her £££££ she has literally no integrity whatsoever if this is the case. shame on her

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

But can I just check - you started off saying 'abuse from feminists' and then changed it to 'women' (see, I read what you wrote!)

Although I cannot be 100% sure some of them were feminists, they were definitely using feminism as their reasoning for being so abusive. All of them were women.

I am a feminist, but I totally disagree that having a differing viewpoint on some aspects of feminism makes one less worthy than another.

There are very extreme views on both sides, there is middle ground that nobody is willing to acknowledge because neither extreme side wants to back down even a little bit.

See, I don't think wanting to protect women's rights is extreme. If you think that makes me an abusive feminist then I'm good with that tbh.