The Queen Victoria statue in Leeds

[Sugarplumfairy65]

Her statue has been vandalised with graffiti. The BLM logo and slave trader spray painted all over it. Why?

I remember his boots - they were always red in my day.

I've heard that students previously knackered Victoria by pushing one of the figures on the side off the plinth- as a result, Industry now lives in a shed in Armley

westleedsdispatch.com/armley-mills-queen-victoria-industry-statue-woodhouse-moor/

@THisbackwithavengeance

Tearing statues down is ridiculous and meaningless. Like it or not, QV was an important historical figure and whether she was 'good' or 'bad' or 'nice' or 'not nice' is irrelevant. Judging historical figures on today's morals is pointless in any case.

Using the same logic you might as well tear down the pyramids of Egypt.

FFS.

Very good point, the pyramids were built by slaves.

The sheer sanctimony and arrogance of this astounds me. The attitude that 21st century mores are beyond reproach appals me. Most of us wear clothes made in Far Eastern sweatshops, our money supports modern slavery. Maybe look in the mirror before we start rewriting history.

Which industries apart form cotton depended on slavery.

There was tobacco and sugar as well.

However, it is fucking grim to insinuate that working class people digging coal out of the mines in Dudley were “benefiting” from the exploitation of slaves in Jamaica.

In my day we tried to build solidarity between poor people in the oppressor country and those in the oppressed countries, not set them at each other's throats.

@alsohuman the pyramids weren't built by slaves, that's a myth.

I agree with the slavery remarks, if people are that offended by slavery 200 years ago why are we not doing more to stamp it out now! Where were the marches and political call for the school children in Africa kidnapped and sold as sex slaves and for all the women and children who are sex trafficked each year. Girls still being sold as child brides. Rather than focus on the past, let's use the momentum to move forward with full force to get it abolished all over the world. Modern day slavery is rife all over Britain and we turn a blind eye to it!

Not saying people shouldn't be offended and it's wasn't abhorrent then.

If you want to see what the British working class really thought about slavery, here's a good start -

www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/articles/2007/03/19/190306_slavery_history_manchester_feature.shtml

Short version, they opposed it, sometimes at great cost to themselves.

Every king, every queen, every general, every lord and lady - their statues should be torn down and monuments erected to the working class.

That makes sense, as Wilberforce had been campaigning against slavery for at least 20 years before it was banned. So it was widely known about.

I hope you show your students the picture of Nick Griffin sat in front of his Battle For Britain poster complete with 303 Squadron Spitfire with Polish markings clearly visible.

Sorry, reference went over my head. I looked it up and it looks like this nonentity appropriated Poland for his own dubious political ends 10+ years ago and was called out for it. Is this relevant today to Polish people, and if so how?

Every king, every queen, every general, every lord and lady - their statues should be torn down and monuments erected to the working class

I agree there should be more statues and monuments dedicated to the British working class but not all aristocracy were unsympathetic toward them. Many were of course but some dedicated their whole lives to improving the condition of the working class or at least as landowners or industrialists some treated them fairly within the context of the times. They weren't all baddies.

@Flaxmeadow

Nobody in England properly appreciated the extent of the Irish Famine, not least because they couldn't be bothered to find out.

The famine was widely published in British and Irish newspapers at the time

As I said elsethread, The British did not starve the Irish. They sat back and let the Irish starve. Get it right.

If they had wanted to sit back and let the Irish starve, they wouldn't have intervened by sending relief and organising famine relief projects. They wouldn't have let Irish people, fleeing poverty, disease and famine, into Britain.

This. I'm part Irish. My great-great (there may be another 'great' in there lol) grandfather moved to England during the famine for a better life. Don't forget a lot of people were illiterate back then as well, so it wasn't necessarily because they 'couldn't be bothered'.

@flaxmeadow I could literally not give less of a fuck how lovely some of the aristocracy were. Everything they had was stolen from the working class, if not directly by the person in question, then by their fathers and grandfathers ad infinitum. Working to redress that is their responsibility and they certainly don't deserve a fucking statue for it.

i'm sick to death of people harping on about statues and pearl clutching about vandalism. Black people are being murdered purely for being black. If all you have to worry about is a statue of an old racist being drawn on, you're bloody lucky.

I think vandalism of a statue of Victoria is a pretty poor way to behave, she is related to our current monarch. It's quite pathetic now. Where will it end?

the pyramids weren't built by slaves, that's a myth

No. They were built by a highly unionized workforce with excellent health care and pension plans.

It's not really a myth, it was the established view, taught in schools for decades and has now been disproven.

Slave labour is very unproductive. Blokes with whips would be better employed with a pick and shovel.

Perhaps the statues will become like the angels in Dr Whio

Defacing statues or removing them does not improve things.

Keep the statues. They are part of the history of the nation.

What we should be doing is talking and reading about what happened, how society has changed and the improvements that still need to be made.

That is where people's energies should be. Not to 'whitewash' things by making these symbols of the past invisible.

To do so alienates people, including a significant amount of BAME people like me.

@BovaryX they were paid and they had their own tombs which showed they were respected skilled labourers and they left graffiti that indicated they were proud of the work they were doing. It's entirely likely that they had mutual aid societies to act as pensions when they became too old to work, and that they collectively bargained for pay and conditions. Or do you have evidence otherwise?

It's entirely likely that they had mutual aid societies to act as pensions when they became too old to work, and that they collectively bargained for pay and conditions

Of course it is, dear.

@notreallybotheredaboutausernam

i'm sick to death of people harping on about statues and pearl clutching about vandalism. Black people are being murdered purely for being black. If all you have to worry about is a statue of an old racist being drawn on, you're bloody lucky.

In London, too many black people are being murdered by other black people. Where are the protests about that. Why are we not demanding action on ways to protect them.

If, I lived there or some other major cities I would be more concerned for my son, than having a few statues of people with slave trader links around.

their statues should be torn down and monuments erected to the working class

Working class man was quite likely to go home and beat his wife - which was also socially and legally acceptable in the 19th c.

Good point never fit

Maybe we need Billy Bragg