The Queen Victoria statue in Leeds

[Sugarplumfairy65]

Her statue has been vandalised with graffiti. The BLM logo and slave trader spray painted all over it. Why?

[JigglypuffsCaptor]

Jesus user no I merely stated a historical fact. The English ran around the world oppressing everyone for a very long time, and even before "modern history" if anything as their empire grew from Great Britain to The Emprire they just oppressed people more as time went on to the point of systematic racism against BAME communities.

Point is you can't tear down England can you 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Andthenthenewone]

@mynamesmrdiggety

There is a full on racist sitting in the White House right now, pulling down statues is symbolic, but while people are still voting for this idiot nothing will change. I suppose I feel energy could be better channelled to the present day.

But the statues are being pulled down in the present day too. Why can it not be both?

[DressingGownofDoom]

'oh its you again, claiming the welsh are as oppressed as black people. Absurd.'

Where did you get that from? All the poster is saying is that the English have occupied most of the Celtic nations for hundreds of years, resulting in massive loss of life and adjustment of the way of life to those nations.

[DdraigGoch]

What on earth is Robert Peel supposed to have done to incur their ire? Catholic emancipation? Repeal of the corn laws? Prison reform? The Metropolitan Police? Factory regulation?

I notice that among the graffiti on his statue in Glasgow is a hammer and sickle. I doubt that the vandals appreciate the irony that the USSR was engaged in mass murder and slavery.

I trust that the statue of Engels in Manchester (erected as recently as 2017, no "long time ago" excuse there) will be removed post haste. It's deeply offensive to Ukrainians of whom there are many in Manchester, mostly descended from refugees.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/19/manchester-soviet-statue-engels-ukrainians

Both Engels and Marx were racist, hopefully the latter's bust in Highgate Cemetery will be gone by the end of the week too.

[Andthenthenewone]

I think that present day statues should represent present day heroes so people can actually relate to them. It’s a huge waste of opportunity. I would pause to reflect on a woman’s statue who made it big in my time. If I wanted to know anymore about Queen Victoria (I don’t), I would go to a museum or read a book.

[DdraigGoch]

oh its you again, claiming the welsh are as oppressed as black people. Absurd.
That's not what she said.

[Facefullofcake]

What on earth is Robert Peel supposed to have done to incur their ire?...The Metropolitan Police?


Yep, that's amongst a fairly long list in the petition referenced in the article.
www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/leeds-statue-former-prime-minister-18387047

[Facefullofcake]

"Peel’s father - also Politician Robert Peel - who raised a petition against the Foreign Slave Trade Abolition Bill on the basis that it threatened the cotton industry. Peel created the London Metropolitan Police in 1829, the ideas for which he developed while overseeing the British colonial occupation of Ireland. He was pivotal in setting up the police forces which maintained British rule in Ireland and a system which led to the poverty, famine and displacement of Irish people. Colonialism and racism - in this case anti-catholic sentiment - are central to British history. Not only that but with the legitimacy of current policing in question, the history of policing, its origins in colonialism and its role in suppressing dissent deserves greater scrutiny.

Monuments and statues are celebrations of history. We should not celebrate colonisers. Peel’s statue belongs in a Museum, as part of an exhibition for others to learn about the history of British colonialism. Statues such as these only serve to erase this history and the stories of colonised people. "

www.change.org/p/leeds-city-council-remove-leeds-statue-of-sir-robert-peel

[DdraigGoch]

@Facefullofcake that's daft, the Met were established as unarmed citizens in uniform, quite unlike the gendarmes found in many countries. This lot are off their rocker.

[Sweetlikecoca]

@chickbaa

I have mixed feelings about this. BAME voices have been suppressed long enough, and whilst I don't encourage anyone to graffiti, there is no deny that history has contributed to the situation we have today.
I wish there was a way to do this without violence or damage but I won't condemn anyone either.

I can relate to the mixed feelings. I feel the same and am on the frontline so don’t get the wrong impression that I’m advocating for people to get the COVID. How ever when I read on MN some of people’s ignorance and dam right obtuse attitudes as though we are living in the 70s I think Good luck to them.

[DdraigGoch]

@Facefullofcake And throwing his father's views into their argument, that's really stretching it.

[NervousInYorkshire]

The Victoria graffiti was, if nothing else, a missed opportunity for someone to spray paint 'we are not amused '.

[Disquieted1]

According to the news, Abraham Lincoln's statue was also sprayed with graffiti.
I am not going to get into one of those semantic angels-on-pinheads arguments that many on SM love. I will ask though: Do the people who do this want people to support their cause or not?
I'm not talking about the argumentative hair-splitters, I'm talking about the average Joe who believes that Lincoln did as much as he could. Do you want these people facing you or supporting you?
And how do you think that the average Joe in the UK will react to the attacks on Winston Churchill and Queen Victoria?

This is a massive tactical mistake.

[Pixxie7]

Queen Victoria loved India, to the extent that she had a rajah as her personal companion and gave him thousands. It is getting out of hand now.

[Andthenthenewone]

@Pixxie7

Queen Victoria loved India, to the extent that she had a rajah as her personal companion and gave him thousands. It is getting out of hand now.

Was that rajah one of those locals you buy when you are colonising somewhere? A bit like how Saddam was a buddy or Taliban were the freedom fighters.
This is what these statues are doing: stopping history from being presented accurately.

[Andthenthenewone]

And how do you think that the average Joe in the UK will react to the attacks on Winston Churchill and Queen Victoria?
You need to give more credit to average Joe.

[ImStillBreathingButBarely2]

@user1471565182

oh its you again, claiming the welsh are as oppressed as black people. Absurd.

Historically they were though. Horribly oppressed by the English. no longer the case now.

[DdraigGoch]

I think that present day statues should represent present day heroes so people can actually relate to them.
Can you suggest anyone?

And what happens when a future generation decides that your chosen hero owned too many diesel cars or wasn't vegan enough for their social norms? It's hard enough getting the fourth plinth at Trafalgar Square filled every couple of years without replacing every statue in the country on a regular basis.

[Andthenthenewone]

@DdraigGoch

I think that present day statues should represent present day heroes so people can actually relate to them.
Can you suggest anyone?

And what happens when a future generation decides that your chosen hero owned too many diesel cars or wasn't vegan enough for their social norms? It's hard enough getting the fourth plinth at Trafalgar Square filled every couple of years without replacing every statue in the country on a regular basis.

At least five women scientists from the last century, at least five from this one already. Those are just scientists and just women.

As for replacing them every generation or so, why not? I don’t think it will be that costly.

[DdraigGoch]

According to the news, Abraham Lincoln's statue was also sprayed with graffiti.
Oh for God's sake, it was Lincoln who outlawed slavery. That's like attacking William Wilberforce.

[BashStreetKid]

Meh. Graffiti happens, anywhere and everywhere. Get over it.

[DdraigGoch]

@Andthenthenewone just a few thousand left to think of then. Can you guarantee that none of them will ever be viewed negatively in the future bearing in mind that social standards change.

One last question, do you own shares in a bronze foundry?

[BashStreetKid]

And how do you think that the average Joe in the UK will react to the attacks on Winston Churchill and Queen Victoria?

Loving the concept of the average Joe breaking into a white heat of rage at the thought of a lump of marble representing Queen Victoria being vandalised. Judging by the appalling levels of ignorance we tend to see whenever history questions come up on TV Quiz shows, average Joe would struggle to identify who she was.

[TomBradysLeftKneecap]

The world has gone insane from being stuck in the house for so long. I know the first thing I want to do is go get a haircut and go real life, full on proper shopping. Call me shallow but, pulling down historic statues, that remind us to learn from and remember history, is pretty low on my list.