Family row scheduled for this afternoon - help me prepare myself

[Oakmaiden]

This is not the way I would prefer to deal with this, but unfortunately my husband scheduled a family row (aka "We will discuss this tomorrow") with my teenage daughter. I need help to work out what we hope to achieve and what is reasonable to expect. Please.

The background: I am trying to keep this as brief as possible. DD is 16 and is currently (was, before everything shut down) being assessed for Autism. She also suffers from sometimes very bad depression and very high levels of anxiety. She is very bright (was hoping for straight A's for GCSEs, but with all that is going on, who can tell...) but her passion has always been for performing - she normally spends around 20 hours a week on top of her school week dancing/acting/singing etc.

Lockdown obviously changed her life dramatically. As well as an abrupt end to her schooling and the cancellation of several performances she had been working hard toward, her "extra curricula" life changed. Her dance, drama and singing lessons all went on line, so she could have continued them as normal, but she finds the online format very difficult, and says that she no longer feel as though she is being taught and corrected, merely given activities to do. She has stopped singing and drama completely, and goes to maybe 3 or 4 dance classes a week. At most. The rest of the time - she plays on the computer or sleeps.

And this is the source of most of the conflict - she plays a game with people in the States, so goes to bed at about 4am and gets up early afternoon. Yesterday we didn't see her until 6pm. She hasn't been outside since the week before lockdown (she was isolating the week before as she had mumps) except occasionally in the garden. Her contribution to the household is to cook one meal a week and wash up once a week (these are her official "tasks") which I don't think is very much, but she thinks is hugely unreasonable. Yesterday it was her turn to cook, and she decided to make macaroni cheese (which my husband can't eat as cooked cheese makes him ill) and refused to heat up a jar of ready made sauce alongside it for her father so he could eat.

And EVERYTHING we say to her she has a comeback for.

I want her to live more "UK centric" and sociable hours, to become more involved in preparing for her future and to help out a bit more. To lead a more normal life. She says she can't see what difference it makes to us, and we should leave her to do what makes her happy. DH wants to confiscate her computer.

Am I being unreasonable to want to make changes (I am willing to compromise, and in honesty her happiness IS very important to me) or should we just leave her to get on with it.

My take on the refusal to heat up the sauce for your DH is that she thought she was doing something 'good' but felt crushed when it wasn't 'good' enough [in her mind] and chose to sulk and refuse rather than deal with it in a more mature manner.

My suggestion is that you sit down and ask her to make a list of what she thinks would be a fair contribution to the household tasks. This gives her some control. And I'm sure she knows she's not contributing fairly at present. If that can be agreed, then ask what penalty she thinks is fair if she fails to complete her tasks. Again putting her in control.

It would be in her own interest to make a decent list that she could cope with.

I would talk to her - She needs something to motivate her.

can she do some reading - books and plays etc that will help set her up for drama studies? Watch some films of Shakespeare plays with her (Romeo and Juliet, much ado etc).

Can you do something active with her - exercise or go for a run or something regularly?

Tell her she needs to only go on the computer between x time and x time - and then the router is going off.

She’s very young and this has got to have been horribly tough on her. Everything she enjoys and all her social time has been taken away from her. At the same time, be firm.

I could not read and run. I know exactly where you are coming from. I have two autistic teens, aged 16 & 18, both have had exams cancelled (GCSE's for ds and A levels for dd) and both absoutely live for and want a career in performing arts (music for ds, dance/musical theatre for dd).

She will have lost her entire social life. Ds had very few friends, just the music room kids and his youth theatre friends. His June show was cancelled. The November one probably will be. I have basically taken the approach of whatever helps him to cope at the moment is fine but there are certain things he must do to heolp the family as a whole function.

I notice that you say she feels she is just been given excercises to do, not corrections or feedback. Are there any classes or workshops you can find that are interactive via Zoom. My daughter is lucky in that her college (she's on a 3 year Trinity Diploma and was due to start her DDI) are holding completely interactive zoom classes. The teachers can see the students and give personal corrections. She also gets 1:1 zoom singing lessons. Ensemble is difficult but the college are running rep classes where everyonegets a chance to sing and get feedback.

Ds doesn't get that but I did arrange a couple of one off 1:1 classes with a West End musical director. He was offering acting through song/vocal technique classes but I asked if he would do a keyboard coaching session for ds. Is there anything similar that anyone could offer your dd so she felt like she WAS getting corrections (which to be honest is the whole point of a class.

I know it was cheesy but one thing that gave my two a purpose was arranging and rehearsing a weekly song during the clap. I realise that its easier when you have an entirely musical family (I used to sing and dh is a voice coach too) but I know a few of dd's friends have made videos etc too.

Staying up til that time is NOT ideal and it's not something I allow, but I'm not in your position, ds is complying with those rules.

I'm sorry if this isn't helpful and you've tried all this but I wanted you know you are not alone.

As for the America thing, do you know who she is speaking to. It could be anybody with all kinds of dodgy intentions.

I suppose, at least if they have dodgy intentions they are in America (and she has no webcam).

But no. She pays on a Roblox server which has a community that is quite structured. I think (but may be recalling incorrectly) the world they have created is based on Harry Potter or something and they go to lessons, and have training sessions so they can pass their exams and stuff like that... And if you can't attend specific sessions you can't "progress" or something like that.

So it isn't a specific "someone" she is talking to, it is engaging in a make believe word. She got very involved in something similar before, but based in the UK, where they were all Greek warriors and had to form phalanxes and stuff. Again in Roblox.

It is very odd, but fairly harmless. And she is suitably suspicious. She did get someone dodgyish messaging her recently, but she showed be, deleted it and reported him to the server admin.

@Oakmaiden

Is DH autistic?

Um. No comment...

Why?

Ds is 17.
After GCSEs last year, he basically went nocturnal. He had worked really hard all year, and then he just went 100% x-box and on-line social life. We were desperate for him to get a job, get up in the morning, do some volunteering, anything really. NOPE he was not budging, and in the end we decided it was a battle we were not prepared to fight. He had done the work when needed for GCSE and was now in 100% teen and switch off mode.
He started A levels well, got a Saturday job, and was all back to being a hard working on-track student, and then as soon as lockdown started he did the same, went nocturnal. I get up at 6 am and he is often still awake.

I set some family rules, around getting out into the sunshine/exercise, and around helping out - they are doing some cooking and cleaning, they have a daily chore. And we have had several conversations around school work, but basically we are letting him do it as that is how he is coping.

He does not have ASD, but his younger sister, aged 12, is waiting for a diagnosis. She has been SO stressed by lockdown, by the change, by having to manage all her school work, and organise herself etc.
We have had a lot of meltdowns, including violence.

In the end we have found a compromise, where we can help her plan and structure her week. She is anxious, and is looking for control. She grabs control in little things in any way she can. Yesterday she was doing a puzzle and would not allow her older sister to join in. It looked spiteful/mean, but I know it springs from her need to control the situation. She had it all planned, piles of pieces where she had put them, and she couldn't cope with anyone else changing that.

She is VERY dependant on her phone at the moment, many kids with ASD use screens very differently form NT kids and they are one way of destressing, we have seen that a lot with dd.

Things that worked for us - I put a list of jobs up on Monday, and they can chose which one they do, but one per day. That gives them control, but also allows help. (I had to rethink this list when ds asked me to make some jobs ones that he can do at 4am!). We had some ground rules, but only a few, and with reasons (ie I am wfh, and need help with household stuff) this includes exercise, and we have encouraged creative ways of doing that - dd2 is now doing couch to 5 k with an app on her phone. dd1 choses to walk to the dog, ds does body building in the garden with a wooden curtain pole and rucksacks full of bricks!

posy - some dance schools are totally interactive with corrections (like my dd's college) others are pre-recorded lessons or you just watch a livestream and follow. I'm not criticising, some teachers are not as tech savvy or don't have good internet connections but those classes are of limited use.

My take on the refusal to heat up the sauce for your DH is that she thought she was doing something 'good' but felt crushed when it wasn't 'good' enough [in her mind]. But surely she would know her father can't eat cheese so why would it be a surprise the dinner is unsuitable?

As the parent of an HF AS adult child, that sounds a good start to me.
But please listen to what she has to say, and compromise where possible if she comes up with an alternative view.
My child is very distressed by the loss of his outside life, job, flat, normal routines and has regressed to the (frankly very very hard to live with) 16 year old, he was a decade ago.

@Soubriquet

because he does have lots of, what I would call "Autistic traits" but gets very offended at the suggestion.

@titiana " But surely she would know her father can't eat cheese so why would it be a surprise the dinner is unsuitable? "

I imagine being a typical teen she'd forgotten to consider other people's preferences.

@Oakmaiden

So I would like her to:

1. Spend some time outside every day (cycling with her brother or walking)
2. Keep up with her dance and singing - maybe I could phone her teachers and try to organise one to one lessons for dance, and talk about restarting singing as soon as practical (apparently it doesn't work on Zoom because of the time lag).

3.Do her (modest) chores without complaint.

1. Shower regularly.
2. Get up by lunchtime (ready to eat at 1pm?)
3. Spend some time taking part in activities with the rest of the family.

Does that sound reasonable?

Not all at once, no.

Take the router to bed with you . Draw up a chores list for her so she can see what needs to be done every day. Ask her to cook twice a week and no cooked cheese. Are you interacting as a family? Board games, card games, walks? Maybe you could do some baking with her. Is there something you can watch on TV as a family? She is probably depressed and demotivated. Gaming is addictive . Try to gently take her out of herself and build some positive interactions. Bike rides together, picnics etc. She certainly shouldn’t be gaming all night and what about her schoolwork?
Could she watch theatre productions online? I would have thought that would be if interest to her.

@Oakmaiden

So I would like her to:

1. Spend some time outside every day (cycling with her brother or walking)
2. Keep up with her dance and singing - maybe I could phone her teachers and try to organise one to one lessons for dance, and talk about restarting singing as soon as practical (apparently it doesn't work on Zoom because of the time lag).

3.Do her (modest) chores without complaint.

1. Shower regularly.
2. Get up by lunchtime (ready to eat at 1pm?)
3. Spend some time taking part in activities with the rest of the family.

Does that sound reasonable?

I don't think you can enforce 5 or 6. You can wake her, or force her to sit with you, but it won't be worthwhile.

Can you make her do 1 or 3? Maybe discuss this with her and see if she has any ideas. You might get outdoor exercise included in the "getting fit for when her classes are all back" - learning to jog/run is the best way of staying fit and flexible.

I'd enforce eating with you all at a set time each day, and a once a week (let her choose the time) family activity. And encourage as many classes as you can. If her teachers could suggest some online learning to get ahead for the further education she wants to do that would also be good.

But essentially I would do the minimum to keep her happy and you all sane until things get back to normal.

And differentnamefor this is right - one thing at a time.

Pick two things at most, negotiate.

Not all at once, no.

I am expecting to have to compromise on the list, anyway. I thought this could be my "what I would like" starting position, and we can compare it to her starting position and see if we can meet in the middle.

Re: singing on zoom. Ds is a singing teacher so I can comment on this. Ensemble classes do not work on zoom that is correct but 1:1 is fine. Dh either gets his students to use backing tracks or he plays along on the piano and they follow him and he adjusts to the time lag.

Agree with pp, that is far too much to take on at once. One thing sat a time, and slo-o-wly. What single item on that list of six things is the top priority here?

Dd also has a weekly 1:1 singing lesson on zoom and gets lots out of it.

If your DD has autism then she will likely be overwhelmed if you even try to get her to think about all those six things at once.

I think going outside. I think it will help her mood.

MAking ds help take the dog for a walk did help Oakmaiden. We used the pretence that dh needed someone to accompany him due to a me3dical condition.

I have an AS DD of the same age, same interests and is quite intelligent enough to know how to manipulate .... she cooks dinner, is in bed by 11pm no arguments, my house, my rules ... router off at 10pm ... Autism isn't the problem here, her puberty is ... she is behaving like most 16yr olds .... she needs to be telt through grown up adult discussion exactly what's, what as a young Adult.

surely she would know her father can't eat cheese so why would it be a surprise the dinner is unsuitable?

If she has autism then she may have missed that altogether. Not necessarily, people with autism vary a lot, but it can happen. She could have a fixed "plan" in her head and not be able to take in problems with her plan or be able to accept variations to her plan.

@Oakmaiden

I think there are a few issues at play. How you view conflict - preparing for 'family row scheduled'

I am rubbish at conflict. It scares me and I get upset, even quite mild disagreements. And I am afraid of upsetting dd a lot of the time, as her mood has been SO low and I am scared of what she will do. And she gets upset so easily, too.

I suffer from mh issues too.

All in all it makes me very far from a perfect parent as far as discipline is concerned.

I know. It is tough. But it is our job as parents. I'm not saying go in all guns blazing, I'm not saying take the computer.

I am saying recognise that her MH difficulties may be a RESULT of no boundaries and thus poor self regulation skills. I get there may be an autism diagnosis and you will have to wait to resolve that.

In the meantime she will have to change and you and your DH will have to change how you respond.

She will have to commit to going to bed earlier.
She will have to help more.
Cook more - with planning and consideration.
Learn to negotiate.
Learn to exercise.

Your boys will have to pull their weight.
I think the full schedule she had before this was quite insane - its great that she is interested in dance etc but there must be balance. - family activities, chill out time, not 'always on'.

The sleep needs to be sorted - poor mental health is hugely associated in a vicious cycle sort of way with poor sleep routine and no exercise.

You will get good at conflict management - it does not have to be stressful. ask for your needs to be met and remember you are the parent.