Family row scheduled for this afternoon - help me prepare myself

[Oakmaiden]

This is not the way I would prefer to deal with this, but unfortunately my husband scheduled a family row (aka "We will discuss this tomorrow") with my teenage daughter. I need help to work out what we hope to achieve and what is reasonable to expect. Please.

The background: I am trying to keep this as brief as possible. DD is 16 and is currently (was, before everything shut down) being assessed for Autism. She also suffers from sometimes very bad depression and very high levels of anxiety. She is very bright (was hoping for straight A's for GCSEs, but with all that is going on, who can tell...) but her passion has always been for performing - she normally spends around 20 hours a week on top of her school week dancing/acting/singing etc.

Lockdown obviously changed her life dramatically. As well as an abrupt end to her schooling and the cancellation of several performances she had been working hard toward, her "extra curricula" life changed. Her dance, drama and singing lessons all went on line, so she could have continued them as normal, but she finds the online format very difficult, and says that she no longer feel as though she is being taught and corrected, merely given activities to do. She has stopped singing and drama completely, and goes to maybe 3 or 4 dance classes a week. At most. The rest of the time - she plays on the computer or sleeps.

And this is the source of most of the conflict - she plays a game with people in the States, so goes to bed at about 4am and gets up early afternoon. Yesterday we didn't see her until 6pm. She hasn't been outside since the week before lockdown (she was isolating the week before as she had mumps) except occasionally in the garden. Her contribution to the household is to cook one meal a week and wash up once a week (these are her official "tasks") which I don't think is very much, but she thinks is hugely unreasonable. Yesterday it was her turn to cook, and she decided to make macaroni cheese (which my husband can't eat as cooked cheese makes him ill) and refused to heat up a jar of ready made sauce alongside it for her father so he could eat.

And EVERYTHING we say to her she has a comeback for.

I want her to live more "UK centric" and sociable hours, to become more involved in preparing for her future and to help out a bit more. To lead a more normal life. She says she can't see what difference it makes to us, and we should leave her to do what makes her happy. DH wants to confiscate her computer.

Am I being unreasonable to want to make changes (I am willing to compromise, and in honesty her happiness IS very important to me) or should we just leave her to get on with it.

[Zaphodsotherhead]

Does she enjoy cooking? Maybe you could give her some 'cooking lessons' as a means to helping engage with her?

She sounds a lot like my DD1 was at that age (she's subsequently been assessed as ASD and ADD). Gaming all night, staying in bed all day... her entire social life was lived online with American friends (who still are friends now, 15 years later!). She had to be handled very differently from her brothers and sisters, but one-to-one time helped her. In my DD's case, we gardened together and it gave her chance to talk.

Pre warn your DH that you can't treat an ASD person the same way as you would a neurotypical one and that punishments and conditions have to be laid down slightly differently.

[TheHarryFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

My ds is also autistic and he needs boundaries to be enforced and very clear expectations.

In your shoes I would make use of the computer conditional. One job a week is ridiculous at 16. My dc all have daily chores and the youngest is 5. Ds 12 who has asd does the recycling, the dishwasher, the hoovering, the dusting, cleans out the car, cuts the hedges (not all on the same day!! But one job a day!)

So if I were you I’d give her a daily job and tell her that use of the computer that night is conditional on doing her job without complaint and interacting politely with the rest of the family.

If she does this then I wouldn’t care if she stays up all night on the computer. That’s her social world and it’s important to her and could be helping her mental health.

[Tableclothing]

Sounds like her mental health has taken an absolute battering. (NB mental health problems and bad behaviour not mutually exclusive)

Having a row will be utterly counter productive.

An approach of

We love you
We care about you
This is a really difficult, horrible situation you're in.
What do you need to get you through it? (Maybe write points down to help with the discussion)

Ok, thanks for those ideas.

This situation is difficult for us too because...

We need... (think about this beforehand)

Then look at what everyone has said they need.
Are there any straight-up clashes?

What should we do to make sure everyone is getting what they need? (Get her ideas first)

Wherever you can, I'd definitely try using questions rather than statements... e.g. instead of "staying up till 4 a.m. is bad for you" try "how do you feel the next day? Do you think it helps? Why?"

[NancyJoan]

I don't think she sound have her computer taken away, no, but her behaviour IS making a huge difference to you all, so she has to make some changes.

Do you go out for a walk every day? She should be coming with you (unless she's very anxious about the virus, but you haven't said that she is). Good for her MH, and also for you to spend an hour together.

Making a family meal that you can't all eat is cruel, and deliberately antagonistic. She is supposed to be making a meal to take the weight off your/your partner's shoulders, if she won't do that then I would introduce some kind of punishment.

[ComDummings]

There’s no need for it to become a row. I really don’t think confiscating the computer will help any of you, in her eyes she’s lost everything and her computer is her lifeline. She sounds depressed. I think taking the router away at a certain time or removing the computer at a certain time is more constructive.
I’m remembering being a teenager and can only imagine how hard it must be being stuck in lockdown with my parents - who I love very much - but honestly they would have driven me nuts and vice versa. As a teenager my dad in particular got on my nerves (personality clash) so lockdown would have amplified it so much. So I think having a bit of understanding is important for you and your DH right now.
With the cooking thing I would say how disappointed and upset you are and draw a line under it. Agree with your DH a punishment should that happen again and tell your DD the consequences if it does happen again.

[Jeremyironsnothing]

Mid road. Yes she can get up at later but by midday at the latest. Wake her up then. Yes she can talk to the states till later, but time the WiFi so it cuts off to enable her to get up by midday.

If she won't help out more with the family then do the basics for her but don't go above and beyond. She wouldn't accommodate dh, so next time don't make her anything different. She eats what you make regardless of whether she likes it or not I'd deliberately schedule some meals I know she doesn't like to make the point

BUT don't do this in anger. Talk calmly about why you are doing it. How everyone needs to be nice to each other, help each other etc. Don't get drawn into Arguments. Empathise with her and sympathise. Life is shit for her at the moment but she can't absent herself from family life and responsibilities.

Draw up a schedule. With a midday start and a Wi-Fi cutting off point. Put in a chore a day so she knows exactly what happens when. Keep calm and reasonable in the face of teenage unreasonableness. But keep those basic boundaries.

Agree another family meeting row to reassess in a week or two.

[GU24Mum]

You'll know (whereas we don't..........) how much of her behaviour is being a teenager / having nothing to do / being stuck at home / due to autism.

I've got a nearly 16 year old who is OKish on the days when school provide some form of teaching (currently doing some A level intro courses) but when she had nothing to do for 2-3 weeks was really hard work and made sure everyone else felt it. She'd also be awake ridiculous hours if I let her and is really difficult about food.

Choose your battles, compromise but that doesn't mean that she should be staying up til 4am which is ridiculous. The US is a bit place so can't you say that she'll have to play with people who are either happy to play late morning/early afternoon or late afternoon/early evening their time (depending where they are) - or she has to find people in a similar time zone to play with.

[Glacialevents]

Be very careful about being too soft - I was far too soft and accommodating with my children and now have DC in their mid-20's who don't respect me with no self-discipline.

Friends and colleagues who were firm with their children enjoy far better relationships with their DC than I do. I bitterly regret not being tougher. Of course she can carry on with activities online it sounds like she's copping out.

I would be very suspicious of the gaming with people in the States, this will become addictive and her sleeping/waking programme will set that way and she will find it hard to get back to normal hours.

She needs to contribute a lot more towards household tasks and take exercise daily. I would take the computer as a short, sharp, shock until she becomes respectful and contributes.

Of course it's hard for her, it is hard for everyone, and I do have sympathy at her losing her contact with her peer group etc, but getting into unhealthy bad habits will only worsen her state of mind.

[biglittlemedium]

You are a parent and this child clearly needs some parenting.

[Splattherat]

Firstly if she is 16 and in year 11 school work and normal life has basically stopped for them and it is hitting some kids much harder than others.
I have a DS 16 his school have encouraged them to start work on an EPQ project and he also does very minimal reading around the other subjects he intends to take at A level. He is fine he does some school work and plays X Box a lot of the day but not beyond 9.30pm.
DD 15 on the other hand has tons of school work and I think she is quite down, depressed and overwhelmed by it. But she wont talk to me about it.
Your DD maybe a bit similar to mine. I wouldn’t take the computer off her altogether but I would agree clearly defined limits and she would feel better if she goes outside and gets some exercise and fresh air. YNBU to say no computer after X time, go out for a walk once a day and to add a couple more chores to her list.

[chillied]

I think you need to have your daughter's back here. Everything she has lost in lockdown is more significant than one stubborn cooked meal.

I would suggest you try, try, try to talk to her as an equal. You don't confiscate things from equals or even lay down the law about bed times.

Ask her how this lockdown and not doing performing is feeling to her. Listen. Get her talking about what she might want to be aiming for or doing in a year, or much more.

What does she want to see her 'household' role as. Maybe framed in terms of skills to practise for one day having her own place, not framed as punishment or rigidity. Maybe she wants to cook her own meals just for her some days a week, gain more control over her own diet (I notice my own 14 year old starting to do this, I only wish I'd had the courage to do it myself). Maybe if she is invited to suggest it herself, without pressure, there might be another way she might contribute to the housework.

She's not hurting anyone by staying up USA time and banning it will be counterproductive. Keep non pressured lines of communication open so you can pick up and facilitate new ideas to help her.

[MzHz]

So @Oakmaiden, you do share the concerns your dh has about the way your dd is conducting herself?

Would you be any better at conveying this to her than your h?

I do think that you do have to tackle this, routine is vital for those with asd even if only suspected, if this helps and works with your dd, then good.

Of course she’s going to resist it, but she needs to link back in with you and your family more.

The food thing - she could do more, she will need to plan the meals she’s going to make and it gets the nod from you. Does she understand how pissed off she would be if you made something she hated or couldn’t eat and told her basically tough tits?

I’d set rules and say that if she can’t consider others, if she isn’t taking part of the family, isn’t participating in school and is investing all her energy in gaming instead that unless she shows some moderation, the router gets switched off at night

Stay calm, stay focused on what you want and keep the message consistent

[ShadowMane]

@BreathlessCommotion

I have an autistic 7 yr old daughter. Don't confiscate the computer, you need different behaviour methods for autistic children. It won't work, she won't learn from it but she will probably spiral in worse anxiety without anything to help her.

My dd often becomes more unmovable (can look like stubbornness) when she isn't coping well. She can display behaiour that seems selfish, spoilt etc. But its a signal she isn't coping and needs control.

I imagine she is finding lockdown very difficult and is very anxious. I would be looking to compromise as much as possible (not always easy With ASD child!) on the game. It won't be immediately obvious to her why her hours aren't acceptable and why she should perhaps alter them.

This - i have a DS with aspergers, and i have had to change my behaviour to match him, so instead of shouting at him when he is having a meltdown, i try talking and empathising, - ie it makes me sad when you are struggling, because i know you are not doing it on purpose,... then i walk away, and things are defused a lot quicker

its taken me nearly 15 years to get to this point - its not easy

[Bigearringsbigsmile]

If she gets up early , what will she do during the day?

My eldest is home from uni and is spending an awful lot of time in bed/room. It drove me mad at first but then I had to stop and think....if he gets up what is he going to do?

She has everything she values taken away. She may be feeling overwhelmed, isolated and lonely.

Please stop thinking about what she is doing 'wrong' and think about how you can all work together as a team.

[IncrediblySadToo]

I think a lot of people have no experience of dealing with autism & anxiety in teens, be wary of taking advice from those who don't.

What was her plan for now pre covid? Was she going on to 6th form or a performing arts college?

I think you need to focus on the things she can look forward to and can achieve, rather than focus on the 'UK Centric' & staying up late etc.

We are in the middle of terrible & strange times, hard enough to deal with for couch potato NT teens, let alone one who had an active, busy life & anxiety probable autism. You cannot deal with this how you'd deal with an NT teen in 'normal' times.

Does your DH struggle with accepting her anxiety & probable autism? Does he understand he needs to be thoughtful around how he deals with her and not just storm in?

Calm DH down. This needs to be an actual discussion about her life going forward, not a telling off.

Obviously she needs to understand that cooking something DH can't eat and making no provision for him is unkind and cannot happen in future.

But her Mental Health matters SO much more than what she cook or when she sleeps - it really does and right now if she's keeping herself on an even keel then tread extremely carefully!!

[TitianaTitsling]

Who's calling it a 'row' agree with your DH that it is a discussion not a row. Has she said why she made the macaroni cheese dish? Purposefully to exclusive her father from a meal? Or lack of thought?
How did she meet the USA folk she games with? Online? Why can't she see if there is anyone in UK to game with.
I think router should be turned off in the nighttime, otherwise is there not a risk she'll struggle with sleeping pattern when school/college starts back?

[SeasonFinale]

People seem to have missed the part where it was macaroni cheese for everyone else but a jar of sauce with pasta for Dad. Why do you have jars of pasta sauce in if they are not to be used? She probably thought she had in fact catered for Dad.

As regards the way she is socialising, this time is difficult for all of us, especially our teens and I would say I assume even more so for an autistic teen. I don't think at present that her socialising online with people in the US to do something she enjoys is terribly wrong. If it is helping her mental health then it is a good thing.

Perhaps a chat about how you do need more help around the house at the moment add some additional tasks to her rota. Perhaps collecting the laundry (and teaching her how to do it unless there is a reason why she shouldn't), collecting bins from round the house and putting bins out.

Maybe saying that if she is indeed old enough and adult enough to engage in games until late at night she is adult enough to contribute more around the house.

What are her plans for 6th Form. Maybe you could help her find some reading or courses online that will feed into her A levels.

I think in these times some slack needs to be given especially if she is autistic.

[Waveysnail]

Turn off wi-fi at night, perhaps compromise on midnight turn off.
Could you speak to her coaches and get some 1-1 classes set up for her, even face to face outside.
Meal plan together for the week so she knows what she is cooking on her nights and that it is suitable.
Increase her chores to daily tasks.
Asd teens are tough.

[Ellisandra]

What jumped out at me, is you don’t even want to approach it this way, you’re using words like row, and it is your husband that is making you.

Why?

Why aren’t you doing it your way?

Did she make the meal he can’t eat because she’s fed up of him bullying you both?

Her life has been turned upside down. From preparing for GCSEs at a high standard and lots of creative classes to almost nothing. That’s massive.

And he’s talking about confiscating her computer? Is that what led to her making the macaroni cheese?

He needs to calm down and stop throwing his weight around.
You both need to be more sympathetic.
And she needs to get a grip.

Why is it a problem if she keeps different hours for now, if it is keeping her occupied? Are you happy with the game and online friends? If so - let her adjust her hours.

Tell her you want time with her, and engage with her in how that happens. If she spends a few hours an evening with you, what does it matter if she sleeps late? I do think you need some ground rules here, but they should be sensible ones, not the the ones her dad wants to ride rough shod over BOTH of you to enforce.

[Oakmaiden]

A bit more clarification, I didn't want to make my OP too long!

SCHOOL WORK - she doesn't have any. I think this is a large part of the problem. She has now "finished" her GCSEs, so will be moving on to A levels. That itself is a source of quiet conflict. She wants to do A levels in music and drama, alongside studying for her DDE (dance teaching qualification). I actually think this is a good idea, as most of the courses she wants to do at degree level either don't have academic requirements or want the equivalent of 2 good A levels. DH is cross that she is doing nothing "academic" and thinks she should do 4 academic A levels and then focus on her performing arts if she wants. He hasn't voiced this to her, though, but does to me.

HELPING AT HOME the reason she does so little is because she generally has an insane schedule - weekdays she is normally at school during the day, come home for a quick bite to eat and is at dance class by 5pm. Then doesn't get home til about 9 most nights. Saturday is a full day of drama and dance and then Sundays she does Associate Dance once a month and an elite Musical Theatre class once a month. So because she works so hard (normally) it seemed fair she did less at home.

We do have 2 boys as well - they both cook once a week too, so actually the cooking is fairly split (dh and I cook twice each, the yougnsters once each). The boys wash up more than her - 3 time each. I am thinking of changing that whilst she is not at school so that they all do it twice. But yeah, to be honest apart from that (and taking the bins out - dhs job) I do all the housework at the moment. Which is fine when I am the only one at home and everyone else is at school and working (though I do work too, but irregularly) but I think they should all be helping more at the moment.

@Notverygrownup I like your list, I might use that as a place to start.

[Thisismytimetoshine]

For God's sake back your dh on this, he is completely in the right to be hacked off.

[Ellisandra]

@SeasonFinale the dinner issue is that she refused to heat up the jar of sauce for her father. Which I expect was a childish battle of wills, because he was being a dick over her computer 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Waveysnail]

Also she could online game early hours on a Friday and Saturday. Then midnight turn off the rest of the week