Family row scheduled for this afternoon - help me prepare myself

[Oakmaiden]

This is not the way I would prefer to deal with this, but unfortunately my husband scheduled a family row (aka "We will discuss this tomorrow") with my teenage daughter. I need help to work out what we hope to achieve and what is reasonable to expect. Please.

The background: I am trying to keep this as brief as possible. DD is 16 and is currently (was, before everything shut down) being assessed for Autism. She also suffers from sometimes very bad depression and very high levels of anxiety. She is very bright (was hoping for straight A's for GCSEs, but with all that is going on, who can tell...) but her passion has always been for performing - she normally spends around 20 hours a week on top of her school week dancing/acting/singing etc.

Lockdown obviously changed her life dramatically. As well as an abrupt end to her schooling and the cancellation of several performances she had been working hard toward, her "extra curricula" life changed. Her dance, drama and singing lessons all went on line, so she could have continued them as normal, but she finds the online format very difficult, and says that she no longer feel as though she is being taught and corrected, merely given activities to do. She has stopped singing and drama completely, and goes to maybe 3 or 4 dance classes a week. At most. The rest of the time - she plays on the computer or sleeps.

And this is the source of most of the conflict - she plays a game with people in the States, so goes to bed at about 4am and gets up early afternoon. Yesterday we didn't see her until 6pm. She hasn't been outside since the week before lockdown (she was isolating the week before as she had mumps) except occasionally in the garden. Her contribution to the household is to cook one meal a week and wash up once a week (these are her official "tasks") which I don't think is very much, but she thinks is hugely unreasonable. Yesterday it was her turn to cook, and she decided to make macaroni cheese (which my husband can't eat as cooked cheese makes him ill) and refused to heat up a jar of ready made sauce alongside it for her father so he could eat.

And EVERYTHING we say to her she has a comeback for.

I want her to live more "UK centric" and sociable hours, to become more involved in preparing for her future and to help out a bit more. To lead a more normal life. She says she can't see what difference it makes to us, and we should leave her to do what makes her happy. DH wants to confiscate her computer.

Am I being unreasonable to want to make changes (I am willing to compromise, and in honesty her happiness IS very important to me) or should we just leave her to get on with it.

[BreathlessCommotion]

My Dh is also autistict(like 7 yr old dd) and I have spent large parts of the last 7 years refereeing the two of them. When dh and I had relationship counselling it was discussed at length. Because two people with fixed views are great when they agree, but not when they don't.

The counsellor pointed out to my dh that however hard he finds it, he is the adult here. So he has to find a way to work with dd and her fixed mindset which isn't just butting up against her.

I can totally see my dd doing the same with the pasta sauce, even though she herself is very fussy. It would have beerotoo much to cope with and pushed her over the edge. When that happens dd shuts down and often refuses reasonable requests, or shouts or has violent meltdowns.

My dd has spent all day in screens, playing on Nintendo dd, ipad or something. Its not ideal for a 7 yr old, but all coaxing and chatting hasn't worked today. I can force her off devices, but it is likely she is dealing with something (she is finding lockdown very hard) and she will explode. And it won't solve anything.

Her sleep has always been awful too and she has melatonin to sleep.

[Oakmaiden]

Oh, and I am inviting a friend of hers and their family round for a "distanced " BBQ

[Jux]

Good luck. It sounds like you've reached a decent resolution. I always feel sorry for kids who have worked really really hard at GCSE and A level, as it is exhausting and they much feel pretty brain dead once they're over. TBH, I let dd do absolutely nothing after her A levels for months. She took as much time as she needed before picking herself up and rejoining the world. I think that any child who has genuinely worked hard towards exams - for years - can be excused retirring to their innner sanctum for a long time, and most will be really keen to be ready to take the next step, be it Uni, or A level, so will get themselves back together in time. After all, that's what they're working so hard for in the first place, isn't it?

[OrchidJewel]

That sounds very positive, fair play to you

[2pinkginsplease]

You are rewarding a 16/17 yr olds with pasta in a jar to get a prize for following rules. That’s so patronising and childish, I stopped doing that when Mine were about 10yrs old!

I think your list of expectations are too many all at once.


When I read some of the replies on here I do often wonder how many people giving “helpful” advice actually have teenagers.

[Sirzy]

If she has agreed to it and wants to do it that way then why is it patronising? Different things work for different people and if knowing a reward is coming works then great. I know adults who reward themselves with a pound in a jar each time they exercise to save up so how is this different?

[Oakmaiden]

It is a bit tongue in cheek, the whole pasta in the jar thing. But she is a huge Supper Nanny fan and often tells me how Super Nanny says I should parent, so she was amused by the idea. Which was one of the points...

[isofatso]

@2pinkginsplease Do you have an autistic 16/17 year old DD?

OP has had a constructive conversation with her daughter and they have come up with a solution they're mutually happy with. That's what matters here. If it works her DD will get up at a reasonable time (for teens in lockdown!), and get fresh air and exercise. I would say that's a great result OP.

The pasta is a visual reminder of the reward which DD feels motivated by. If she later decides it's too babyish there are many more grown up alternatives they can discuss at that stage.

[Poppinjay]

You are rewarding a 16/17 yr olds with pasta in a jar to get a prize for following rules. That’s so patronising and childish, I stopped doing that when Mine were about 10yrs old!

ASD is a neurodevelopmental disorder which can include neurodevelopmental delay. That is exactly why posters are telling the OP to take advice from parents of youngsters with ASD.

If she feels motivated by this strategy and it is emotionally manageable for her, it is perfectly appropriate.

[Oakmaiden]

Someone asked why dd is only just now being assessed, while the boys have been diagnosed.

Because they are very different?

The eldest is now 22 and was diagnosed first (and at a very young age) with ADHD and then shortly afterwards with Asperger Syndrome and Tourettes.

DS2 is 15 and it was always very obvious that he had definite traits.

DD always just seemed a bit... precocious. But never any trouble at school or at home until she hit secondary school. Or rather - she had idiosyncrasies, but we worked around and with them. She masks extremely well, and has all sorts of clever strategies to help herself cope. But secondary school (and it was a huge jump from her lovely, small class, nurturing primary to a huge state secondary) pretty much undid her. It has been very hard.

[steppemum]

He’s got school work to do but to be fair to him he does it all, just not in the morning. Does that matter?

ds is year 12. He is nocturnal and does all his school work between dinner and 2am.

a pp said they wake their year 11 dd up at 8am.
WHY??? poor bloody kid. She is off school, but having to get up to do....what exactly?

Teenagers are known to have a different rhythmn. Look at all the schools which switched to 10 am start for teens. It is a well known phenomenom, and many of us remember well not going to sleep until the early hours and sleeping in til lunchtime when we could.

It is a physical phase and it passes, but right now, with no other structure, it is how many of our teens are coping.

Your don't sleep 'better' between certain hours, you sleep better when you are not anxious, and when it fits your rhythmn.

She is NOT at school, she has finished school, she is in the post GCSE limbo break that they all get after several years of hard work.

[Purpleartichoke]

ASD family here

We don’t allow electronics (aside from a kindle for reading) during certain night time hours. This is to allow for good sleep habits. I absolutely would not confiscate the computer completely.

As for the meal, when she doesn’t eat what is on offer, does the person cooking make her something she can eat. With ASD, it’s not always just a preference. If you accommodate her with meals, then yes, she should accommodate others. However, if meal planning doesn’t always meet her needs, then her dad should make his own alternative.

[Oakmaiden]

That’s so patronising and childish, I stopped doing that when Mine were about 10yrs old!

She is not an ordinary 16 year old. She is rather - unique. For example, you can't walk across the floor in her bedroom - not because it is messy as such, but because she collects Beanie Boos, and each one has its own shoe box as a carefully made bed, and they arranged in careful rows across her bedroom floor...

She is unique, as I say...

[AndwhenyougetthereFoffsomemore]

Sounds like you've managed to come to a solution that works for you and her: fabulous (ignore the pp posting about pasta jars: clearly not dealt with many ASD kids: very visual, tangible things are hugely valuable in communication) I suspect that a little more structure and outdoor time will make a big difference.

You know your dd, but I notice with my ASD teen, that when they are stressed and anxious, they tend to be much more confrontational + black and white ("But I've cooked tea, its not my fault dad doesn't like it" would be totally in keeping for example...) I would really do a lot to be keeping her anxiety in check for a while if you can - does she find mindfulness/meditation helpful at all? One of the things about repetitive exercise/singing is that works as a mindfulness practice in it's own right so she is probably missing the benefits she'd normally get there...

[Poppinjay]

She masks extremely well, and has all sorts of clever strategies to help herself cope. But secondary school (and it was a huge jump from her lovely, small class, nurturing primary to a huge state secondary) pretty much undid her. It has been very hard.

This is very similar my DD1's experience. We had no idea she was autistic until CAMHS told me when she was 12. High school nearly destroyed her and I promise you that is no exaggeration. If it helps at all, she is just waiting for her last set of exam results, after which she will have completed a Biomedical Sciences degree.

It sounds like you've managed a constructive conversation and set some realistic goals. She sounds like a lovely girl who craves and thrives on routine and doesn't know how to communicate when or why she is struggling very well and you sound like you're doing a good job with her.

[DoraemonDingDong]

Well done OP on some positive outcomes. Your list doesn't sound unreasonable to me, but I know that my ASD DD would struggle to comply with everything on that list and at 17 years old cannot be coerced.

Have your sons been diagnosed with ASD? How does your DH manage with them? I hear you when you say he gets offended about his "autistic traits", my DH is exactly the same unfortunately . However, regardless of what your DH thinks about himself, he needs to learn to manage your kids' ASD if he wants to maintain a good relationship with them. It's a huge learning curve for everyone, we're adjusting on an almost daily basis!

I think some posters on this thread would consider us very lax parents, setting no boundaries or instilling no discipline. But that's not true for us, and I doubt it's true for you too. We're constantly learning how to communicate effectively with our ASD kids, they are emotionally extreme and incredibly black & white in their thinking, socially immature compared to many of their peers. I will only upset and disappoint us all if I expect then to behave as NT teens.

You sound as though you've dealt with this particular episode really well, with positive outcomes for all of you

[Dontfuckingsaycheese]

@Oakmaiden : I am so pleased to see the positive turn this thread has taken. That's hilarious that she looks up to SuperNanny.

Slightly related, but I remember, many many years ago, when I was really, desperately struggling with DS, who I tried to parent as a NT child and got nowhere, I knew very little about SEN and got fobbed off re him having any issues time and time again by education and health people when I said how difficult everything was. He was finally diagnosed at the beginning of Year 6. after years of me fucking it all up and doing it wrong.

So, pre diagnosis, he was probably about 4, and we'd probably gone through a particularly shit one, I remember saying to him, I'm going to get a book, called "How to be a better parent". And he broke my heart when he asked me if there was a book called "How to be a better child".

Like I said earlier, he's now 17 and we have a bloody amazing relationship I'd say. I have told him. I can't think of anyone I'd rather spend lockdown with than him.

[Juliet2014]

Genuine question but given her unique aspects you outline - why wait so late to pursue an assessment?

[Ninkanink]

@Juliet2014 OP has answered this question in the thread.

[AmaryllisNightAndDay]

Glad you've found a way to resolve things with your DD. Sounds like you really understand what makes her tick!

[OrchidJewel]

@Oakmaiden you have much going on. Hope you get time for yourself

[Juliet2014]

Ah sorry

[JustSew]

Please, please ignore the well meaning advice from parents of neurotypical teens I would add "and parents of younger children".
Just as a parent of a new baby might not listen to the advice of someone without children.
Clearly lots of posters on this thread don't have teenagers. We all thought we knew how we would parent our children when they became teenagers but I suspect most of us ended up realising that a different approach is needed.

[blosstree]

Girls mask a lot. Lots of girls are misdiagnosed or not diagnosed until late. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 24.

Boys present the more 'stereotypical' autistic traits and generally diagnosed earlier.

[mumwon]

Not only do girls with asd mask a lot you still get clinicians/teachers et al saying useful things like girls don't get autism
I did psychology at uni & one thing I remember is this: women present differently with schizophrenia & bipolar, the question is why is this & why is it such a surprise that this sex differential of different presentation might also occur in asd?