"Why have kids if you can't afford them?"

[DianneWhatcock]

Aibu to never forgive this once being said to me ?

My "best friend" since I was a teenager said it to me five years ago and I have never been able to fully move on from it. Because it's given me the unshakeable impression she looks down on me

At the time I was working pt with 3 under 8 inc a baby. Dh working full time in a fairly decent job (more than min wage) plus he had a second job (1/2 evenings a week plus was studying). We were renting and saving to buy. We used to get a small amount of tax credits but we relied on that to make ends meet. we ended up having our tax credits more or less stopped due to an overpayment that would last about a year. I was worried sick at the time as this genuinely really fucked us financially. I told her about it and how worried I was and her response was basically "well why have kids if you can't afford them?" (I should also add she hasn't got kids and lives rent free with her parents - they have a big house)

Nowadays we haven't claimed a penny for years. We own our house (mortgaged) , dh is a high earner I'm working more and we don't even qualify for the very basic child benefit.

However H is furloughed and I guess it's back on my mind. Cos if he ends up redundant we may face having to claim some form of benefits again even temporarily. But the thought terrifies me - I thought I was past that part of my life where I struggled and counted every penny. And I can't stand the thought of being a person that gets judged again (even though I would NEVER judge others that way I am not that kind of person)

I will never ever forget this comment and how shit it made me feel. she never really apologised and I don't know whether to just end the friendship Cos it has just tainted it for ever i think

I know this is a really rambly post so well done anyone who got this far

I think if the comment is getting to the OP that much she must believe it to be true/have a hint of truth in my opinion

@Raaaa

I think if the comment is getting to the OP that much she must believe it to be true/have a hint of truth in my opinion

It doesn’t just have a hint of truth, it’s entirely true.

OP did have a third child when she couldn’t afford it. She just doesn’t like to acknowledge it and sticks her fingers in her ears when other people bring it up.

It's not a nice thing for a supposed friend to say. But I would probably think it silently if someone had chosen to have three kids in fairly quick succession while not being particularly financially secure

Is agree with this. It’s not a nice thing to say, no one would like to hear it.

But many might think it where someone with more than 1 or 2 children is saying they are struggling financiallyz

What an interesting read.

OP, you’re amazing. You bagged a man who’s now earning well, you’re now reaping the benefits with your huge house and flashy holidays, you’ve got 3 kids while your “friend” isn’t a mum and doesn’t have her own house. She knows nothing. You were entitled to the support you got and now you’re amazing.

Is what you were after from this thread? Validation that you’re better than this woman? That you’ve made it?

I don't know whether to just end the friendship Cos it has just tainted it for ever i think

Well, given that this happened five years ago, surely you should know by now whether it's tainted the friendship!

It certainly sounds like it has since you're still not over it.

It was a throw away comment based on ignorance and privilege. Only you know if she's genuinely a decent person or not. If she is, then forgive her. It doesn't reflect on you, and your value should not depend on others opinions of you.

30 years ago I found myself pregnant aged 16. A close friend looked down her nose at me and said 'oh I'd never have a child unless I had the money to buy my baby the best available'.

I've never forgotten her comment but have forgiven her and she is still a friend to this day. People talk shit sometimes but people also change...

..and yes I did end up doing a degree and have a far better paid job than her now.

@SallyWD
We can't say only those who are comfortably off can have children.

^^ Lots of people do secretly think this though!

And she deserves it she's vile

Maybe your friend thought that

[quote Redleathertrousers]@SallyWD
We can't say only those who are comfortably off can have children.

^^ Lots of people do secretly think this though![/quote]
I'm not sure many people think that exactly, but if you've already got two children and have a third that you literally can't afford, that's a quite specific set of circumstances.

@Raaaa exactly you wouldn’t be writing on here 5 years later.

Your friend was insensitive but I completely agree with the sentiment. My dm was widowed at 40 with three young children. Thank goodness she and my df has planned for the worst and we were all taken care of. We were always financially secure enough to not have to rely on benefits, but I know it was tough on my mum shouldering the burden of three dc alone. She worked full time to ensure we had everything, even though the house was paid off, and put the significant lump sum she received away for a rainy day. She still used to worry about money constantly and worked so much to provide that we missed out on lots of quality family time.

I have two dc. We are relatively well off and could easily afford more dc which I would love. But I know just how quickly life can change and how quickly money goes when you have growing dc. I honestly can’t understand why people have more than two when they are struggling.

@DianneWhatcock @Waxonwaxoff0 sadly she’s not fictional Anytime she was put under pressure she slid conveniently back into depression Our friendship didn’t work as I was brought up that claiming government support shouldn’t be a lifestyle choice, that people should be self sufficient, that benefits should be a temporary hand up, not a hand out, and government support should be for those who truly need it, for the long term sick, for the disabled, caregivers supporting a ill or challenged family member - not someone who claims she’s entitled to be a stay at home mum just because her child is a rainbow baby. Sadly I’m very sure she’s not the only person whose lost a baby, if every family who had experienced the loss of a child stayed home, the country would be bankrupt.

Taxes are a finite resource, and anyone having a family should be consciously planning on how they can support their families self sufficiently. I think the minimum wage should be a living wage, that zero hours contracts should be banned, and that it should never ever be possible to live better on a benefit than be working.

The reason tax credits exist is because the government acknowledge the minimum wage isn’t enough to support a family. There is no shame in this top up for a working family, it simply means wages and cost of living don’t match.

Waiting to have a family when finances are perfect means some might never have a family and why should some people not have a family because despite working they still can’t keep up with rising costs.
And even if they do wait for the perfect time what’s to say circumstances can’t change suddenly.

The help is there, if people need to use it then that’s why it’s there. There is no shame in a working family getting support while they need it. I’d suspect the majority of families who need it do so when their children are young and their career hasn’t taken off yet.

@MehMehMeow

Depression and PTSD ARE long term health problems. Sounds like this woman is suffering form PTSD from her lost baby and depression, which is exacerbated by greater responsibility.

It's up to you how you see people though. Easier to see people as scrounges than as sufferers

That was unkind of her.

I think of you choose to have a child or children knowing that you're financially insecure then it's an odd life choice to make. I realise sometimes it's a situation people may find themselves in later down the line, or as a result of unplanned pregnancy etc and that's a very different scenario. But I'd silently think the same if you'd knowingly gone into it with your eyes open tbh. I wouldn't say it though and I'd still try to be supportive.

I think instead of judging we should be making sure that people are earning a living wage. Suggesting that poorer people just dont breed instead isn't going to actually solve anything. Not that anyone here is directly stating that (or I hope not).

Having children you can't afford is a special kind of hubris. It really takes self-absorbed to the next level, this idea that you and your other half are so in love/special that you need to procreate despite only being able to bring your child(ren) into a life of hardship.

So i agree with your friend but I wouldn't level that comment against you OP, you don't seem the feckless type.

Aside from all that, if someone said that to me (even if i deserved it) they wouldn't be a friend of mine anymore.

The cost of living is extortionate in the U.K.- I have a huge issue with the strains all families find themselves under and do not resent tax credits. BUT 3 kids??? There is no need to actively pursue a third child if you rely on state help to survive!

I bet all those "you shouldn't have kids you can't afford" people were also out clapping for key workers every Thursday.
Should shop workers, carers, healthcare assistants, bin men, just not get to have kids?

OP, I'd have thought the same, but not from a place of judgement but from a place of "how are people managing this?"

I don't understand how a couple on roughly the national average wage or a bit more, with one inevitably either part-time or paying for childcare, can afford more than one child. It leaves me flabbergasted at how they manage it, and convinced there must be something I don't know, like a lottery win or an inheritance. 😂

DH and I have one child. DH works full time on above the national average and I work part-time and we also pay for part-time child care. We live in a reasonably cheapish area (ie. not London or Cambridge). We are very careful with our finance but yet the cost of everything to do with small children leaves me speechless.

There is no way on God's green earth we could afford another child, so I look at other people and think "how?"

@BilboBercow maybe they should just have one? I dunno. Who needs 2, who needs 3? I wouldn't comment and I think the OP's friend was a cow to do so but honestly. Come on!

@BilboBercow don’t take things out of context. I don’t think 3 is an overly large family I’d say once you get to 4 is a large family. The point a lot of people have made is live within your means and if you have 2 children or 4 kids and your budget doesn’t allow for another. Then you shouldn’t really do so. *This seems a common problem that people have a few kids then complain about finances

@Mumoblue I agree about the living wage is overly low. That’s another matter altogether. Realistically it is complex because everybody would need a pay increase other wise people such as nurses or a radiologist is not going to study if they can work in a store for a similar wage and I don’t think an increase will happen unfortunately.
Its a tough one this is no excuse to have more kids than you can afford though I see it all to often and it’s quite cruel.