"Why have kids if you can't afford them?"

[DianneWhatcock]

Aibu to never forgive this once being said to me ?

My "best friend" since I was a teenager said it to me five years ago and I have never been able to fully move on from it. Because it's given me the unshakeable impression she looks down on me

At the time I was working pt with 3 under 8 inc a baby. Dh working full time in a fairly decent job (more than min wage) plus he had a second job (1/2 evenings a week plus was studying). We were renting and saving to buy. We used to get a small amount of tax credits but we relied on that to make ends meet. we ended up having our tax credits more or less stopped due to an overpayment that would last about a year. I was worried sick at the time as this genuinely really fucked us financially. I told her about it and how worried I was and her response was basically "well why have kids if you can't afford them?" (I should also add she hasn't got kids and lives rent free with her parents - they have a big house)

Nowadays we haven't claimed a penny for years. We own our house (mortgaged) , dh is a high earner I'm working more and we don't even qualify for the very basic child benefit.

However H is furloughed and I guess it's back on my mind. Cos if he ends up redundant we may face having to claim some form of benefits again even temporarily. But the thought terrifies me - I thought I was past that part of my life where I struggled and counted every penny. And I can't stand the thought of being a person that gets judged again (even though I would NEVER judge others that way I am not that kind of person)

I will never ever forget this comment and how shit it made me feel. she never really apologised and I don't know whether to just end the friendship Cos it has just tainted it for ever i think

I know this is a really rambly post so well done anyone who got this far

It was rude to say it but if you already had two children I can see why she might have thought it.

Yes to the UK being a country with low wages so this is exactly why people shouldn’t have a 3rd child! No point having another baby and then moaning that you can’t afford it because of low wages, that’s just crazy logic to me!

There is one proven way to stop this. It is to raise the educational and economic status of the marginalised. It works. As incomes go up family sizes go down every where in the world. Now let's get some policies that do this and then we will see some real changes.

Tbh, you're beginning to sound like a complete arse. Like it or not, you did have kids you couldn't afford without state help. Should the friend have said so? Maybe not. But you did. You don't want to answer as to why you had so many in those circumstances, but it seems a little odd to start this thread and not expect people to mention it

Yup

What a nasty attitude OP. Calling a poster such names because you didn't like what she said on another thread? Ridiculous.

Are you going to say how your friendship has been for the last 5 years? Tainted it forever?

You’re refusing to say why you had a third child when you were already struggling financially and relying on UC, and saying it’s not relevant. Of course it’s relevant, your whole complaint is that your friend told you you shouldn’t have had kids if you couldn’t afford them, people are trying to see if her comment is justified by understanding why you had a third child when you were relying on UC and struggling, so how is it not relevant?

She shouldn’t have said it when she did. But I agree with her. I don’t think people should have children if they can’t afford them. Why should other taxpayers support your kids?

Tbh, you're beginning to sound like a complete arse. Like it or not, you did have kids you couldn't afford without state help. Should the friend have said so? Maybe not. But you did. You don't want to answer as to why you had so many in those circumstances, but it seems a little odd to start this thread and not expect people to mention it

Yep- this exactly. Spot on.

Elsiebear90
Read the op.
Ops family had 2 jobs and they had tax credits. Not universal credit.

They had 3 children at this time not 2.
Op has not said whether they had more income or not before the 3rd child and then the lower income mentioned. Either way what's with hinging arguments on a third child?

Your friend shouldn't have said it but you did have children when you needed the taxpayer to pay to support that choice. Many will think what your friend said. Furlough etc is completely different as it is an event that has occured after your children.

How the children fare should be the primary consideration. If you know you're skint and you don't believe the state offers enough top up comfortably, then it seems quite cruel to have more because of an entitlement. Love doesn't fill your tummy or keep you warm. And it doesn't always block out the stigma children in poverty face either.

I wouldn't say it, as it's rude, but I've only had one child for that reason, it's what we can afford and still have a comfortable life. I also waited until mid thirties to have DS so I knew we both had good careers, a home etc. Your choice not to but I wouldn't be surprised someone contemplated why you'd have three children when you couldn't afford to. It's not like you could and then your circumstances changed. She should've kept quiet, but maybe you were complaining a lot and she was irritated as your circumstances were your own choosing.

I would never say anything to anyone in person.

But I don't understand why some people on tax credits have 3 kids (not always planned I know). We are good earners, but I would not have a third because we want to support our family ourselves and want a certain level of lifestyle, money is the main reason we have stopped, I don't understand why money doesn't stop others.

I don't feel like this for 1-2 kids, but I do think 3+ purposeful pregnancies whilst needing government support is excessive and poorly thought out. But I truly believe the system needs to be there to support the children, especially when things change as well of course, so I wouldn't change it.

@flirtygirl my mistake saying UC when it was tax credits, however, OP is refusing to discuss her choices and situation around having the third child or whether her financial situation was better when she went in for her third child, that plus her friend’s comments and her hostile attitude lead me to believe that it’s likely her financial situation was also precarious when she went into having a third and she knew she would be relying on tax credits to make ends meet, hence, her friend’s comments although rude, for a lot of people are true.

So my lifestyle is a two fingers up to those who judged me Is it though? Because it sounds like you have that "lifestyle" due to your partner working 2 jobs and studying and it wasn't actuallu down to you making a career for yourself. Don't get me wrong I had tax credits for a short while as I was raped and conceived my son. During my time as a single parent I built a career so I only relied on them for less than 2 years. I had my daughter when I knew I would be financially ok if I had to raise them both alone (I don't earn much, I'm just very careful).

Also, you said if your partner loses his job it may be difficult to find another when the savings run out as he's in construction. Surely he'd just take any job?! I know some people see some lines of work as beneath them (I'm a care home manager so experience this a lot) but surely they're better than relying on benefits, being scared they'll get taken away?!

So how are you raising your children to respond to people who disagree with or annoy them, OP?

I'd say your insistence that you no longer lead the lifestyle that you did just demonstrates that you don't think it was all that great, and was something to be ashamed of.

I disagree, btw... using tax credits legally to support your family is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. But you can't deny that you couldn't afford to have them all without state help. 🤷‍♀️

And calling someone a cunt because you don't like their opinion is something I would be ashamed of.

I just don't understand why your still hanging onto this for 5years. Honestly I'd you didnt like what she said then why remain friends. If it was me in the situation id either have words with her, let it go and be friends or just ditch her as a friend. I wouldn't harbour it for so long and then come and make a post about it

Anyone can have a change of circumstances. Redundancy, relationship breakdown, illness- mental or physical. I meet many women who did things ‘ right’ got a good job then married then planned a baby, then the husband fucks off before the baby is even born!
Pregnancy happens unexpectedly in all circumstances. As a society, surely we should make sure no child grows up in poverty.
I had a child I ‘ couldn’t afford’ at 19. Best thing I ever did! Got a career and have paid lots of tax since then. Was I meant to have a termination because my bank balance wasn’t high enough?

Her comment was rude, if you didn't already have kids though I'd be inclined to agree. In the sense that if you can't make ends meet why bring a child into that situation it only adds stress and pressure and is unfair particularly on the child. If you already have the kids and run into difficulty then of course that's what the welfare state is there for to help you in those times.
People who genuinely need help are one side of the coin. People in a dire situation planning and adding children to the family they can't afford to raise is quite another.
My sister in law can only afford to have one child, they'd love a sibling for their son, they can't afford it so they are sticking with one until their financial situation improves.

OP, if your husband was working full time, and you each had a part time job, and you were still deemed by the not-terribly-generous benefits system to be entitled to some help, then you were already unwillingly contributing to the Exploitative Employers' Benevolent Fund, and should not feel guilty about the benefits.

@DianneWhatcock
You have seriously let yourself down with some of your responses to other posters.
Common doesn’t even cover it.
You seem so aggressively over confident that you are beyond reproach that I wonder why you posted in the first place.
You don’t come across as someone who needs reassurance, because you are 100 % sure that everything you have done is perfectly marvellous.

In general I think the idea tax credits are seen as a benefit to individuals rather than employers is pretty warped.

@nellydean your 'friends' in Ireland have five children if they're getting 700 euro child benefit, and they're living on the dole. Assuming you're also in ireland, what the hell kind of life do you think you can have raising five children on that income? Cost of living, and particularly children, is incredibly expensive. It's hardly an easy life.