"Why have kids if you can't afford them?"

[DianneWhatcock]

Aibu to never forgive this once being said to me ?

My "best friend" since I was a teenager said it to me five years ago and I have never been able to fully move on from it. Because it's given me the unshakeable impression she looks down on me

At the time I was working pt with 3 under 8 inc a baby. Dh working full time in a fairly decent job (more than min wage) plus he had a second job (1/2 evenings a week plus was studying). We were renting and saving to buy. We used to get a small amount of tax credits but we relied on that to make ends meet. we ended up having our tax credits more or less stopped due to an overpayment that would last about a year. I was worried sick at the time as this genuinely really fucked us financially. I told her about it and how worried I was and her response was basically "well why have kids if you can't afford them?" (I should also add she hasn't got kids and lives rent free with her parents - they have a big house)

Nowadays we haven't claimed a penny for years. We own our house (mortgaged) , dh is a high earner I'm working more and we don't even qualify for the very basic child benefit.

However H is furloughed and I guess it's back on my mind. Cos if he ends up redundant we may face having to claim some form of benefits again even temporarily. But the thought terrifies me - I thought I was past that part of my life where I struggled and counted every penny. And I can't stand the thought of being a person that gets judged again (even though I would NEVER judge others that way I am not that kind of person)

I will never ever forget this comment and how shit it made me feel. she never really apologised and I don't know whether to just end the friendship Cos it has just tainted it for ever i think

I know this is a really rambly post so well done anyone who got this far

I do kind of agree with the "don't have kids if you can't afford them" sentiment, except where peoples circumstances change, which they can't help. In the town I live in there are at least 2 families which are poor (FSM) and have 3 children already, both just had another baby, I can't help but judge.

But I do really appreciate the comments by @Gammeldragz and your angle on it. Definitely makes me see it a bit differently.

But it's when it's 3+ that it's starting to take the piss really, lots of good earning households choose to stop at 2 children for financial reasons, this is why I generally support the UC cap at 2 kids.

But technically, a lot of those good earning households you mentioned can’t afford their 2 children because they’re getting top ups from benefits like child benefit and tax credits.

That’s not me judging by the way, it’s just me saying if you’re going to judge people then please judge everyone.

@funinthesun19 as I say I don't think having children should be a privilege for the rich so I'm not against state support for 1-2 children, 3+ is excessive (well I'm not against state support as it's not fair on the children to deprive them, but I do judge those who continue to have children purposefully when requiring state help).

notheragain4 I don’t think it should be a privilege just for the rich either. But on the other hand, I was just saying that people who claim for 2 children can’t afford them out of their own pocket. They’re no better than someone claiming for 3+ IMO.
Maybe 3+ is excessive to you. But I do get a bit eye rolly when someone with 2 children gets on their high horse about benefits when they’re claiming them themselves. It just feels so hypocritical.

@funinthesun19 a line has to be drawn somewhere. For most that is at 2 children, it replaces us so we have a sustainable population (working population etc) without being excessive. 3 children if you can't afford them is excessive, 2 children, even if you need help, is still providing society in other ways.

Most people claim child benefit and lots of people have child tax credits so unless earning over £60,000 or so then anyone that says don't have children that you can't afford is a hypocrite since they will be claiming benefits for their children too.

However, the limit of 2 is a great idea. So everyone gets to have 2 with help if needed and if they want more then no more tax credits etc

This post have become derailed I’m not sure weather some people are deliberately choosing not to see the points been made. There’s a difference between having 2 kids and 4 plus kids.

There’s also a difference between somebody going to work and being topped up and just stopping at 2 kids. Rather than having 3+. It’s about drawing the line.

So earning 50k and claiming CB makes you a hypocrite the ignorance.

Most people claim child benefit and lots of people have child tax credits so unless earning over £60,000 or so then anyone that says don't have children that you can't afford is a hypocrite since they will be claiming benefits for their children too child benefit used to be for every single child- it still should be!!!
it is not the same as applying for benefits to pay your rent or your job hunt (not that I’m sufficiently bothered by either), there is a difference though.
The government has demonised benefits and by introducing a means test where there has never been one on child benefit has demonised its recipients at the same time.

I agree that people shouldn't have children unless they can afford them, however I would never say this to someone unless it was part of a general discussion. I have not had children yet because I can't afford it financially or professionally, it would be irresponsible to bring another life into the world if I can't support them properly.

The majority of people I know with children have 3+. All very hard working people but not high earners. Judge all you like.

I'm sorry but I totally agree with the statement.
Unless your situation totally unexpectedly changes, then for gods sake don't have children.
If you are needing the £80 a month benefit to survive, you don't have enough money.

If you are needing the £80 a month benefit to survive, you don't have enough money
Bit of a shock then to find out the majority of people in the U.K. have zero savings

I get why lots of folks agree with the OPs pal, I certainly do, but I’m surprised that so many of you wouldn’t say to their mate if they were in the same position, if you can’t be honest with your pal then your not really pals imo.

@Inappropriatefemale well it's just not necessary to say it after they are pregnant, what good would it do? If a friend asked for my opinion while they were contemplating pregnancy, yeah sure.

Maybe the friend was asked or it was implied that her opinion was needed/wanted and the OP just hasn’t said, I would have to go back and check what the OP said.

I am just very very honest about my opinion (if you hadn’t noticed ) and so I wouldn’t be able to help myself, but to be fair I don’t mind when my pals are honest with me.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers
Not entirely sure what point you're trying to make? I'm aware a huge percentage of people don't have savings.
But I do believe that if you are needing that £80 a month to raise a child, then you are not financially stable/well enough to have one.
It should be a lovely bonus type thing, not a necessity.
If you need it, it shows that you have planned well enough to have that child as you have no room for any financial emergencies

But...

Why have kids if you know you cannot afford to raise them? Why have kids if you know you will be a burden on the UK tax payer? Why have sex without proper contraceptives if you cannot afford the outcome?

These are questions I ask myself when I see some single parents who do nothing but moan about their really hard life.

@Pineapple1

But...

Why have kids if you know you cannot afford to raise them? Why have kids if you know you will be a burden on the UK tax payer? Why have sex without proper contraceptives if you cannot afford the outcome?

These are questions I ask myself when I see some single parents who do nothing but moan about their really hard life.

Well you can only guarantee no baby if you are Mary.

2007Millie well my point is if you were to “forbid” everyone who needs that £80, everyone who’s kids qualify for free school meals, everyone who gets the maternity grant etc from having children you are ruling out a huge percentage of the population from reproducing. Given the cost of living we can’t just have those on £60k having children.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

I understand, but I still hold that view.
Obviously if circumstances change it's different, but you shouldn't plan a baby with the view that from the outset you will need to claim to afford them

2007Millie but there will always be sections of society who don’t have the ability to increase their earnings to a completely self sufficient level. Retail workers, nurses, etc etc. I don’t think they shouldn’t have children. I am happy for the state to assist where in other ways they have let this section of people down. I do think 3 kids though in such situations is a piss take.

A small minority of people do make irresponsible decisions when it comes to family planning so you can see why your friends thought this. Take my neighbour for example, she is a single mum of 4 and never worked. She partied 7 days a week and got a warning for anti social behaviour. None of the dads are involved with the kids. Her oldest moved out so she no longer got benefits for him so she started working. She worked for a few months then got pregnant so now has 5 kids. Social work are involved cos her kids all have issues. She clearly has little money and gets her kids to go to the local food bank but still decided it was a good idea to get pregnant by some random guy she’d been with for a few months who now also isn’t involved with the baby. Some people do not think things through or do the sums when it comes to having kids, there is no planning or long term thoughts. They just do it regardless of whether the baby will grow up in a stable home

The people who judge others without knowing their situation and who say stupid things like that are complete morons. They're not worth worrying about OP. You do whatever you have to to keep your family afloat, and thats what you should be concentrating on - not ignorant fools who know nothing.

I would think that
But I wouldn’t say it

I think OP is a good example of a case where people need a little help for a few years when their family is young, and then go on to become high earners and "pay it back" for many subsequent years.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that.