You're white you cannot experience racism 3

[PatricksRum]

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

Collectively, we've shared so many experiences of racism and oppression

But you haven't OP.

I've read all 3. You've shared very little. You've been angry (which is fine), you've been nasty, pointedly insulting posters (which is not)

When anyone asks you for specifics, you say 'it's not my job'.

I really think you are derailing an important conversation around race, privilege and what we need to do.

OTOH some other posters have given me great insights, further resources & genuinely challenged me, so thanks.

Not sure why you decided to take offence at Worra's post @PatricksRum. I think you were forced into looking at it in a negative way and then used it as a way of showing a stereotypical response from you for white patronage.
From your title I think we are all in a no win situation.

Interestingly I found this

I'm tired www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3928150-i-m-tired

ONE RESPONSE
ONE RESPONSE

Why?
I don't think that poster has been rude at all in their OP.

What's your stance on this @lemonsandlimes123

I feel uncomfortable about hearing that a group who also experiences prejudice and discrimination on the basis of their ethnicity, Romany and Travellers, can just somehow 'deculture' themselves, and that this means they don't experience racism.

That's a pov that goes in some very unpleasant directions, imo, and I suggest that simply acknowledging that this group experiences ethnic prejudice and moving on would be far less uncomfortable.

Not sure why you decided to take offence at Worra's post @PatricksRum*. I think you were forced into looking at it in a negative way and then used it as a way of showing a stereotypical response from you for white patronage.
From your title I think we are all in a no win situation.*

I personally addressed Worra after accepting I may have got if wrong.
I'm genuinely sorry if I did.

I wasn't forced into anything.
It's so ingrained that when someone points out a potential case of it I alter my perspective. I look at it from my defensive side.

You're winning. You aren't being murdered by us.

@EarringsandLipstick Not true. But I think you know that.

A traveller could alter their attire and they wouldn't face prejudice.

This is appallingly ignorant.

I live in Ireland. Unfortunately, as many Irish travellers can attest, changing clothes, demeanour or accent, cannot (even if wished for, and of course it shouldn't be) change the prejudice they face.

Many Irish travellers, as a recognised ethnic group, look like Travellers, and are mistreated due to that.

How ignorant of you to assume how 'easily' Travellers could change their appearance superficially, if they wished, and would not be seen as Travellers.

I feel uncomfortable about hearing that a group who also experiences prejudice and discrimination on the basis of their ethnicity, Romany and Travellers, can just somehow 'deculture' themselves, and that this means they don't experience racism.
They can though.
That's a fact. It's a horrible thought and they shouldn't have to do it. But it's a fact.*

That's a pov that goes in some very unpleasant directions, imo, and I suggest that simply acknowledging that this group experiences ethnic prejudice and moving on would be far less uncomfortable.*
On a thread on another matter, perhaps. But not this thread. Not now. Not today.
This is about us

How do they look like travellers @EarringsandLipstick

'How do they look like travellers @EarringsandLipstick"

Between this comment and the one on the last thread asking someone if she was white or Jewish it almost seems as if PatricksRum is suggesting all white people look the same. The irony.

EarringsandLioatick, I teach many children from Travelling backgrounds who look no different to all the other Irish children. I don't know who is a Traveller child unless have reason to, eg in my form class or I have to make home visit. What is this distinct Traveller look you speak off?

If a white person does the same as me in the above example, whether they are Welsh, Irish or from the Travelling community, they will be treated as if they are a white English person, and that is very different to the reception that I get, on a daily basis.

Again, I'm sure I'll be accused of derailing but there are a lot of misconceptions being posted here. Yes, we as white people should challenge and examine our thoughts, our actions, our misconceptions but I think some of you have bias, particularly in this case, in how well you think members of the Traveller community are treated.

Zebras I don't understand at all how you interpret those statistics or that BBC article as showing anything other than that UK police ARE disproportionately killing black people.

The stats are it's twice as likely you'll die in police custody if you are black than if you are of any other ethnicity

Please read some of the testimony
Just google their names
Sheku Byoh, Edson Da Costa, Rashan Charles, Sarah Reed
Seni Lewis, Kingsley Burrell, Sean Rigg
These are just a few of the names I know off the top of me head. There are many more and some of the circumstances are just as horrific as George Floyd.

The UK isn't blameless
I used to think like you that it was a US problem but it really really isn't

Even the government accepts it
They commissioned a report in 2017 the Angiolini report.

EarringsandLioatick, I teach many children from Travelling backgrounds who look no different to all the other Irish children. I don't know who is a Traveller child unless have reason to, eg in my form class or I have to make home visit. What is this distinct Traveller look you speak off?

Particularly what is so distinct that changing clothing or hair etc would not alter?

Right I am going to try and eat. I can't remember when I last ate.
Then I'll try to sleep a little.
I will keep posting but if there's delays I haven't abandoned the thread as was suggested on the first one.

I'm exhausting myself to do it anyway.

But. You're. Not. OP.

Nearly every answer from you is 'I don't have to educate you'.

When you are challenged, you twist the words (like you are doing now about Travellers) and don't address the points posters make.

To teach people like you. Looks like we would be onto thread 300 and you'd still not get it.

I don't want you to 'teach' me, how patronising.

I'm happy to hear your views, arguments, experiences, suggestions and so on.

But you have made none, or else only ones that are so trite they are laughable ('read books by black people'. 'Talk to your children')

Do tell me what I am not getting? What am I supposed to 'get'? Your ability to make any cogent points gets in the way of this I'm afraid.

@hearhoovesthinkzebras

I hadn't read the full thread, nor did I understand your motives for posting. I do agree that care needs to be taken to base discussions off facts and recognise that the US has a specific problem with death by cop that the UK does not have.

I was just commenting on the data there and trying to make sure that people didn't simply think "well, black people are killed in custody in proportion with the amount they are taken into custody, so that's fine then." Which it's not, because we need to address why black people are taken into custody at the rate they are.

@EarringsandLipstick well said!

The OP cannot construct or deliver an argument, she only listens to her “ yes men/women”. Her delivery is appalling. Her example of a wheelchair user getting no reasonable adjustments made at work and the emphasis being on the employer is bullshit. In these types of cases we would work collaboratively and seek input from both medical experts and the employee to find out what they were finding difficult, what the hurdles were to them having a level playing field in the workplace. We would work together to create a set of adjustments that were reasonable. It is certainly not a case of the wheelchair user screaming “ you should fucking know what I need in every way, I’m not engaging with you or educating you”. Useless.

I will continue to support BAME issues but not because of the OP but because they are hugely important. I get the feeling OP really feels utter contempt for the so called homogeneous mass of white people ( y’know Jews, English, French, Welsh, Scots, Irish, Eastern European). When you can barely hide your venom funnily enough you fail to engage.

@Dreep I take my hat off to you, you are clear and dignified in your approach. You’ve been treated appallingly.

But. You're. Not. OP.
I am.
Read pp's posts. They have had their eyes opened. If one person has then this has been worth it. That's how much power I feel I have. Can you imagine?

Nearly every answer from you is 'I don't have to educate you'. *
Not true.
*
When you are challenged, you twist the words (like you are doing now about Travellers) and don't address the points posters make.*
I'm not twisting anything. You are the one who said my title specifically invited white people to tell me their experiences of white prejudice (at least I think it was you)

I don't want you to 'teach' me, how patronising. *
Tough.
*
I'm happy to hear your views, arguments, experiences, suggestions and so on.*
Excellent.*

But you have made none, or else only ones that are so trite they are laughable ('read books by black people'. 'Talk to your children')*
It's laughable because it should be obvious but it isn't. That's how much we matter.*

Do tell me what I am not getting? What am I supposed to 'get'? Your ability to make any cogent points gets in the way of this I'm afraid.*
That this is shout black people. Not about any other group of people.
This is our time. This is all about us. This is our moment.

No one should have to change themselves to avoid prejudice.

You absolutely cannot redefine the meaning of words and expect people to understand you. Just because you believe the word racism should cover only black issues doesn't mean it's true.

I support BLM, I deplore any kind of racism, bigotry or prejudice. It doesn't matter to me why a person experiences prejudice, it's wrong.

You're winning. You aren't being murdered by us.

Hyperbolic statements like that aren't helpful at all.

Other forms of disadvantage, racial prejudice and oppression aren't taking a holiday, OP.

The valid point that historically and presently, some white groups are excluded from the protections of the category 'white' and suffer from racial prejudice and racial discrimination takes nothing away from the injustices suffered by black Americans at the hands of the police.

It's just a point to note, and move along.

Nellydean

Thanks for your question. I grew up in a part of the country with a strong Travelling community.

I'm very conscious that language I use might, inadvertently but still unacceptably, cause offence, as I'm not part of the community I'm talking about. So I hope I express myself correctly.

Because the Travellers are an ethnically distinct population, they do 'look different'. Where I now work, I can tell by looking at someone, if they are from the Travelling community. It's nothing to do with their speech patterns, clothes (no idea what OP even meant by this anyway) or other signifiers.

You say you can't, but perhaps because I grew up knowing a lot of Travellers, I can.

It's so reductive & ignorant of OP to assume that Travellers can easily, should they wish to, remove themselves as subjects of prejudice. Sadly, especially in Ireland, it's not true.