You're white you cannot experience racism 3

[PatricksRum]

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers are legally recognised as ethnic groups, and protected from discrimination by the Race Relations Act (1976, amended 2000) and the Human Rights Act (1998).23 Oct 2017

I can't see the point much myself in denying that this group of people experiences ongoing discrimination and prejudice on the basis of their ethnicity, when they clearly do.

It doesn't weaken any calls for racial justice to acknowledge that.

Historically, I think whiteness is a bit of a moving feast.

@namechangegarden

Thank you.

Yes actually, awfully this reminds me of an episode.
A woman was raped.
The responses? That's awful, I can't imagine if it happened to my sister, wife, mum, gran, daughter.
A very valid point was made, why do you have to relate it to you to understand how awful it is? Can you only sympathise when you're directly affected?

For anyone who wants to see the data on deaths in police custody

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/52890363

At face value, yes @Yorkshirelass04.

Had the op started a thread about how Black people suffer from significant systemic and structural racism both in the UK and internationally and how sick/enraged/angry she was about it then she would have received very different responses.

As it is she posted a question 'AIBU? You're white. You haven't experienced racism." without further clarifying that she was using a very specific definition of racism and specifically excluding racial prejudice as she doesn't consider that to be in the same category. Also that she was referring to ONLY black people and not any other minority groups. Had she actually given context and been more specific in her OP all that time ago she may well have not had to deal with all the whataboutery that has appeared all over the threads.

What I love most is a load of people telling me how to construct my feelings, how to explain my frustration, my oppression.
As if we haven't tried to do it kindly.
I'm not purposefully trying to be rude but neither am I making a conscious effort to be nice.
I shouldn't have to speak in any which way in order to plead for my or my black communities' lives.

@hearhoovesthinkzebras

It's interesting that the graphs (second set) show that the UK's issue is that black people are arrested disproportionately, which explains why there is a higher proportion of black people killed in custody. I maybe wouldn't have realised this until recently, but this is a product of systemic racism - lack of opportunities, higher suspicion by police (I'm not sure how to say this last one, but it's like stop and search - you can't get arrested if you're not searched, and black people are more likely to be searched)

@lemonsandlimes123

Had the op started a thread about how Black people suffer from significant systemic and structural racism both in the UK and internationally and how sick/enraged/angry she was about it then she would have received very different responses.

As it is she posted a question 'AIBU? You're white. You haven't experienced racism." without further clarifying that she was using a very specific definition of racism and specifically excluding racial prejudice as she doesn't consider that to be in the same category. Also that she was referring to ONLY black people and not any other minority groups. Had she actually given context and been more specific in her OP all that time ago she may well have not had to deal with all the whataboutery that has appeared all over the threads.

Absolutely, I totally agree.

And had she constructed the thread so sweetly and politely and intellectually it would not have had the impact that it has had

It's the whataboutery that's made these threads particularly eye opening and instructive, lemons.

None of us have any way of knowing what the impact is, so that is a completely moot point.

Sorry posted too soon, had DD2 lying across me.

As soon as I walk into a room, or anywhere in fact, everyone can see that I am a dark skinned Black woman. I also wear my hair in a short Afro style. A lot of people will make a judgement on those facts alone, even if I don't say a word to them.

If a white person does the same as me in the above example, whether they are Welsh, Irish or from the Travelling community, they will be treated as if they are a white English person, and that is very different to the reception that I get, on a daily basis.

And had she constructed the thread so sweetly and politely and intellectually it would not have had the impact that it has had
This!
Think about the reason behind the title.
It shouldn't be that I have to name it that to be heard. But as a black person I have to exhaust everything I have.

@JaggedHedge - totally! Quite an eye opener. Not saying that all lives don’t matter just that black lives don’t seem to matter as much. That’s the point!

@lemonsandlimes123

Had the op started a thread about how Black people suffer from significant systemic and structural racism both in the UK and internationally and how sick/enraged/angry she was about it then she would have received very different responses.

As it is she posted a question 'AIBU? You're white. You haven't experienced racism." without further clarifying that she was using a very specific definition of racism and specifically excluding racial prejudice as she doesn't consider that to be in the same category. Also that she was referring to ONLY black people and not any other minority groups. Had she actually given context and been more specific in her OP all that time ago she may well have not had to deal with all the whataboutery that has appeared all over the threads.

Yes

As soon as I walk into a room, or anywhere in fact, everyone can see that I am a dark skinned Black woman. I also wear my hair in a short Afro style. A lot of people will make a judgement on those facts alone, even if I don't say a word to them.

If a white person does the same as me in the above example, whether they are Welsh, Irish or from the Travelling community, they will be treated as if they are a white English person, and that is very different to the reception that I get, on a daily basis.*

This!

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/08/bleaching-creams-skin-toxic-love-affair

A great article.

Not that bleaching our skins even affords us the white privileges you have.

Obviously we will disagree on this but I don't think it has had the desired impact from the OPs point of view maybe you and she see it differently?

A woman was raped.
The responses? That's awful, I can't imagine if it happened to my sister, wife, mum, gran, daughter.
A very valid point was made, why do you have to relate it to you to understand how awful it is? Can you only sympathise when you're directly affected?

I think when it comes to something we simply cannot fathom because we haven’t experienced the horrors of it for ourselves, then people instinctively try and relate by imagining it happening to themselves, yes. So in your example, imagining it happening to someone they love is the closest they can get to imagining what it would feel like.

In the instance of racism, where they haven’t experienced it due to being white they might use their own experiences of discrimination to try and gather empathy - because it’s the closest we can get to understanding. However, I agree that now is not the time to voice those experiences because it comes out as ‘whataboutism’. But if using your own experiences or fears to TRY and put yourself in someone else’s shoes in order to understand and empathise, that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

I think we need to feel uncomfortable about this. It is uncomfortable as a white person, for me anyway who has lived in (pretty much) blissful ignorance.

Interestingly I found this

I'm tired www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3928150-i-m-tired

ONE RESPONSE
ONE RESPONSE

Why?
I don't think that poster has been rude at all in their OP.

[quote qweryuiop]@hearhoovesthinkzebras

It's interesting that the graphs (second set) show that the UK's issue is that black people are arrested disproportionately, which explains why there is a higher proportion of black people killed in custody. I maybe wouldn't have realised this until recently, but this is a product of systemic racism - lack of opportunities, higher suspicion by police (I'm not sure how to say this last one, but it's like stop and search - you can't get arrested if you're not searched, and black people are more likely to be searched)[/quote]
Listen, I'm not denying that black people suffer from racism or discrimination.

I just think that it's important that information is factually accurate. We aren't the US and when people make statements that suggest the UK police are killing large numbers of black men I think it's important to challenge that and show the facts.

Are the police engaging with the communities and with leaders in those communities, with stakeholders, to discuss stop and search policies? Are they reviewed, if so by whom? I don't think you can just say it's wrong without examining why it's happening and is it warranted and not disproportionate.

But you can't discuss it here, because if you do you are accused of racism.

But if using your own experiences or fears to TRY and put yourself in someone else’s shoes in order to understand and empathise, that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Oh I do agree. The problem is they are posting them. And not to try and understand but to make it about them.

I can't believe these threads are still going

Absolutely CoachBombay

At the very start of this one, a poster asked a really reasonable question about educating children about racism & got no meaningful reply.

In another post OP said 'read books by black people' (her italics). Seriously? That's the recommendation? Many many of us read books by authors of all description, including black but it's her suggested remedy for racism.

One point OP makes a lot is that she does not have to 'educate' others (white people) about racism. I agree. She doesn't have to. So what's the purpose of posting, asking a challenging question but not being willing to engage in discussion, at least, because 'I don't have to'.

What exactly is the point of these threads? Sadly it's mostly about OPs nasty treatment of others, noting in particular her posts to Dreep

*''But if using your own experiences or fears to TRY and put yourself in someone else’s shoes in order to understand and empathise, that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Oh I do agree. The problem is they are posting them. And not to try and understand but to make it about them."*

In my opinion this would be an example of the OP seeming to misunderstand or misinterpret what a poster is communicating

At the very start of this one, a poster asked a really reasonable question about educating children about racism & got no meaningful reply.
No no no.
You're intending to twist this.
I know that at least one other poster and I gave a meaningful reply.

In another post OP said 'read books by black people' (her italics). Seriously? That's the recommendation? Many many of us read books by authors of all description, including black but it's her suggested remedy for racism.
Yeah it's sad that I even have to recommend that to you, I agree but people are so deliberately obtuse(hmm) that I have to spell it out.

One point OP makes a lot is that she does not have to 'educate' others (white people) about racism. I agree. She doesn't have to. So what's the purpose of posting, asking a challenging question but not being willing to engage in discussion, at least, because 'I don't have to'.
Because who else will?
It isn't my duty to, I really shouldn't have to but I'm exhausting myself to do it anyway.
Why? I don't want another black person to be murdered at the hands of a racist white person. I don't.
*
What exactly is the point of these threads? Sadly it's mostly about OPs nasty treatment of others, noting in particular her posts to Dreep*
To teach people like you. Looks like we would be onto thread 300 and you'd still not get it.