You're white you cannot experience racism 3

[PatricksRum]

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

@Mittens030869 it's worth going to Australia and talking to some first nation Australians. (Though they may not want to talk to you if you are white.) They can explain to you why they call themselves black.

Lumping all white people together as racist*

Can you show me where I've done this please?

@BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup I was just commenting on the fact that they had joined the protests and seeing it as a positive thing. It's horrible what happened to them and still happens to them, and I can completely understand them not wanting to talk to me as a white person.

@PatricksRum

*You are twice as likely to go to Oxford University if you are white than if you are black.

Maybe. If you are white middle class who went to public school.*
If you are black middle class and went to public school you are still 50% less likely to go to Oxford University than you're white classmate.
Let that sink in.*

The post you responded to said that white working class boys are at the bottom of the education hierarchy - which they are.

You responded with "you're twice as likely to go to Oxford if you are white". What, white working class boys are twice as likely to go to Oxford than black students are they? Because that's what you are implying.*
On a whole, yes.
White people, working class, middle class, public school, private school, on a whole are still more likely to go to OU than the black equivalent.

What does more likely mean in this context? Do you mean that there is a lower proportion of black students than white students at Oxford? Or that fewer black people apply? Or that black people are discriminated against during the application process? Or that black people's grades aren't high enough to be accepted at Oxford?

*Patricks - The fact that you are not able to tell us what black is but simply tell us all the things black isn't is interesting.
*It's a silly question imo. Black people are those with a dark brown complexion.
*
you said
I'm not sure I can. It's difficult because so much of our history is erased
My grandma is a black woman from the Caribbean.

Unless you are suggesting your Grandma is indigenous to the caribbean which is very unlikely then it would suggest that she was a survivortof the trans atlantic slave trade meaning she came from africa.
*Not necessarily.

*It could be that my dna is made up of many places.

That is the same for many many people and would suggest that black isn't the singular entity you seem to think it is.
To look at her she is very clearly black. She has a Caribbean accent. She has black features. She is black

Please define what you mean by black features?

*A wide nose being one.

*For example, Indians can be very dark but they know they aren't blac
k.

Just out of interest how would you define someone of mixed indian and nigerian parentage?*
Mixed heritage. Mixed race. It depends on the percentage, the major race, 50%+ would be the dominant.

There are a pair of famouse twins. They are mixed race but one looks white with blond hair. So the question is, is she black?

*Black- dark brown skin, often from African descent.

Jamaicans for example some are dark skinned and some are lighter brown , are these lighter brown Jamaicans still black ?*
Of course. Which is why it's impossible to answer the question in a short post.*

Is a person who is half English and half Jamaican black too?*
It depends who you ask.
In Africa you are what your paternal side is.

Fact- there are fewer than the expected numbers for the population of black people at Oxbridge

Reason for that- racism

Mechanisms of that- all the things you said: They don't get as good grades because they don't get to go to good schools or have private tutors or parents who went to Oxbridge with friends who can arrange work experience. They don't apply because no one encourages them and they cannot see anyone else like themselves there.
It isn't only discrimination if it is direct discrimination although that may also apply. All the people on the interview panels will be white and will unconsciously pick people like themselves.

I found this point very interesting, having been told that white people absolutely categorically cannot experience racism.
Back in the days where pubs had signs "no blacks, no Irish" was it only racist against black people? I would say it's racist and unacceptable against both.
Irish travellers would be categorised as"white other" but are massively disadvantaged, in terms of medical care, life expectancy, numbers in prison and educational outcomes. Is that not racism?
No. Their race is white.
The fact they can disguise their background is proof of this.
It's incredible wrong the way they were and are treated but it is based on their background and not the fact they are white.

. *Irish travellers would be categorised as"white other" but are massively disadvantaged, in terms of medical care, life expectancy, numbers in prison and educational outcomes. Is that not racism?

Clearly it is but not according to op. It's white privilege according to her.*

The example given is not a an example of privilege so I would never say that's white privilege
Your post doesn't make sense

When I lived in London I was considered Irish, even if I hadn't spoken. I, apparently, 'look' Irish. The same can apply to Travellers.
Can I ask how you look Irish? How are they able to determine your background from your face alone?

Back in the days where pubs had signs "no blacks, no Irish" was it only racist against black people? I would say it's racist and unacceptable against both

No Black, No Irish, No Travellers.
Guess which one you can still see. Try and prosecute and you get told the pub can serve/refuse who they like.
During the lockdown GRT have been left without vital utilities including fresh water.
Have one recording of Morrisons refusing to serve an Irish traveller "because they've had trouble before"
Romany have has systematic racism for over a thousand years. Unless you are prepared to search though you'll not hear anything about it.

I know that many have taken their children out of school over the past 15 years or so, they rarely attend after primary as their safety can't be guaranteed.
GRT have a much lower life expectancy, and struggle to register for health care.
Coucils fail to provide the very sites they should have done in 1960, and still expect Police to evict them, with nowhere to go.

Mechanisms of that- all the things you said: They don't get as good grades because they don't get to go to good schools or have private tutors or parents who went to Oxbridge with friends who can arrange work experience. They don't apply because no one encourages them and they cannot see anyone else like themselves there.

Is this racism or is this the effect of a class system?

Every single one of those points applies to white working class children so are you saying for black children these points are an example of racism but for white children they are - what?

The example given is not a an example of privilege so I would never say that's white privilege

You said all white people have white privilege though?

@PatricksRum

When I lived in London I was considered Irish, even if I hadn't spoken. I, apparently, 'look' Irish. The same can apply to Travellers. Can I ask how you look Irish? How are they able to determine your background from your face alone?

Not all white people look the same.

@Devlesko

Back in the days where pubs had signs "no blacks, no Irish" was it only racist against black people? I would say it's racist and unacceptable against both

No Black, No Irish, No Travellers.
Guess which one you can still see. Try and prosecute and you get told the pub can serve/refuse who they like.
During the lockdown GRT have been left without vital utilities including fresh water.
Have one recording of Morrisons refusing to serve an Irish traveller "because they've had trouble before"
Romany have has systematic racism for over a thousand years. Unless you are prepared to search though you'll not hear anything about it.

I know that many have taken their children out of school over the past 15 years or so, they rarely attend after primary as their safety can't be guaranteed.
GRT have a much lower life expectancy, and struggle to register for health care.
Coucils fail to provide the very sites they should have done in 1960, and still expect Police to evict them, with nowhere to go.

I don't see how anyone can argue that this isn't racism

@PatricksRum

* Lumping all white people together as racist*

Can you show me where I've done this please?

I can't find the exact quote. However, the impression you have given me throughout 2 threads is that white people, by default, are racist due to their white privilege. If this was not your intention or if its inaccurate, I apologise. Your anger is palpable and, while understandable, it can make the intent behind your words difficult to work out sometimes. That, the admission of generalising and the statement which you then admit wasn't serious has definitely led to me being confused on occasion.

What does more likely mean in this context? Do you mean that there is a lower proportion of black students than white students at Oxford? Or that fewer black people apply? Or that black people are discriminated against during the application process? Or that black people's grades aren't high enough to be accepted at Oxford?
Twice as likely to be accepted.

Another study shows that those with black-sounding names are 50% less likely to receive job callbacks.

There are a pair of famouse twins. They are mixed race but one looks white with blond hair. So the question is, is she black?
Are you referring to the girl twins? One with ginger hair?

*Is this racism or is this the effect of a class system?

Every single one of those points applies to white working class children so are you saying for black children these points are an example of racism but for white children they are - what?*

I've explained this. It's racism.

A poor white applicant is still twice as likely to be accepted then a poor black applicant.

*The example given is not a an example of privilege so I would never say that's white privilege

You said all white people have white privilege though?*

Correct. They do.
That doesn't mean that all their experiences are privileged. It means they are more privileged than us.

Twice as likely to be accepted.

Are you saying then that the same number of eligible black students apply as white students but white students are twice as likely to be accepted?

*PatricksRum
When I lived in London I was considered Irish, even if I hadn't spoken. I, apparently, 'look' Irish. The same can apply to Travellers.
Can I ask how you look Irish? How are they able to determine your background from your face alone?
*
Not all white people look the same.

That doesn't answer the question in the slightest. What is distinct in a white Irish face vs a white English face?

PatricksRum
*
Lumping all white people together as racist

Can you show me where I've done this please?
*
I can't find the exact quote.
Because I've never said that. If I think that why have I actively engaged in pleasantries with white posters?

However, the impression you have given me throughout 2 threads is that white people, by default, are racist due to their white privilege.
I have never said that. That's hour interpretation. I've repeatedly said the opposite.

If this was not your intention or if its inaccurate, I apologise. Your anger is palpable and, while understandable, it can make the intent behind your words difficult to work out sometimes. That, the admission of generalising and the statement which you then admit wasn't serious has definitely led to me being confused on occasion.

Correct. They do.
That doesn't mean that all their experiences are privileged. It means they are more privileged than us.

Could you explain how that white privilege is expressed then?

In a group of people that you've been told rarely access education past primary school, are repeatedly evicted, currently many have no access to water, face barriers to getting medical care, have lower life expectancy, are abused in the street, are turned away from shops restaurants etc - can you explain where they are more privileged than you? How do you think they benefit?