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You're white you cannot experience racism 3

1000 replies

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 12:28

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 17:54

When did I say I was Asian ConfusedConfusedConfused
I'm so confused.

OP posts:
WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee · 06/06/2020 17:55

CoachBombay that's a bizarre post and maybe you are confusing me with the OP who I assume is black

I am white
I am a mental health Dr
I have not experienced racism
I have never claimed that I had
I acknowledge my privilege in being white, middle class and relatively well off. I acknowledge that this was to a large extent an accident of my birth and nothing deserves by me.
I am posting on this thread because I have found it thought provoking and interesting
I have a particular interest in the scandal of the deaths of mentally ill black people since I was working in the region when Rocky Bennet died in the Norvic Centre quite a lot of years ago now. Sad to say nothing much has changed but I will support campaigns to change this and add my voice anywhere it can help.

EarringsandLipstick · 06/06/2020 17:55

Honestly OP, this is nuts.

I said that I (me, EarringsandLipstick 😀) pointed it out

Not you.

Maybe you need to re-read.

For clarity: you made blanket statements on the experience of Travellers. (That they could avoid prejudice by changing clothes (🤔) or accent.

I said that this was not true eg in some parts of Ireland it would be clear by looking at someone that they were a Traveller. And therefore they could experience prejudice, just by someone looking at them.

(Another poster correctly said this wasn't always the case eg in her experience she couldn't tell someone was a Traveller by looking at them. Whereas, she correctly said, all black people run the risk of prejudice on the basis of their skin colour, and cannot avoid it)

So yes: you made casual, ignorant assumptions about an ethnic group. You would be appalled if the same was done to you.

My point stands.

EarringsandLipstick · 06/06/2020 17:57

But to be an ally I need to do more than that. I need to help to end the systems that perpetuate this racism.

@qweryuiop

That's an excellent point.

Tonz · 06/06/2020 17:58

I was attacked by a group of black people in London. They called me all sorts of names for being white. I ended up in hospital. For me it was an isolated incident. Racism is disgusting and I thought what happened to me was the same. I now know it is not. I am not treated unequal in every day life, I am not scared of the police, I have a life of opportunity. I am not held back because of my skin colour. I was just unlucky that day, wrong place wrong time.
Yes the op is angry but if I was a black woman I would be too.

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 17:59

So yes: you made casual, ignorant assumptions about an ethnic group. You would be appalled if the same was done to you.

I am appalled. Hence the thread.

I'm too tired to scroll through all the posts to understand our quotes of who quoted who so I'll just move on from that.

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/06/2020 18:00

[quote namechangegarden]**@EarringsandLipstick* I can understand why @PatricksRum* posts with using shortcuts sometimes, without fully explaining. She is tired (apologies for speaking for you OP), and quite frankly so am I.

It is exhausting as a black person living in the West to continually have to explain the prejudice, racism and microaggressions we encounter simply because of our skin colour.

Nobody would ask a victim of domestic abuse to continually revisit her experiences so we can help her DP/DH not to inflict that on her again. It's traumatic, and a lot of Black people bury it because the emotional damage it does to the individual is immense. I know I personally haven't fully processed every instance of racism I have ever encountered, as if I did, I'd probably spend a year crying, then have a complete breakdown.

Isn't it enough to acknowledge that we have suffered, and continue to suffer, and ask that people treat us as people equal to them?[/quote]
I can't speak for everyone but my reasons for posting on these threads was to try and understand what I need to do, as a white person, in light of what is happening now.

I have always been, I believe, against racism. I call it out and challenge it wherever I see it.

I was in a three year relationship with an Asian man and I witnessed a different perspective then to what I witness as a white person and I hope that it's made me more aware of the insidious nature of racism.

But right now we are being asked to act in a different way and that's where I am having difficulty clarifying in my own mind what I need to do.

An example. Last Monday I was seeing lots of social media posts requesting that we all refrain from posting on our SM on Tuesday other than posting a black square as a way of expressing our support for the BLM movement.

Many people, in good faith and with good intention did this because we wanted to show support, show that we stand with you.

Then came the backlash - we shouldn't have done it, it was "white saviour" mentality, we prevented black people from seeing information because the hashtag used affected searches, we should have posted details, not black squares.

Now, I'm not complaining about my hurt feelings. All I'm saying is so many of us want to support, to be an ally but we aren't quite sure what is the right thing to do.

In your example of DV, we can listen to those accounts, we can sign post to services, we don't need endless detail because we aren't being required to take direct action. If DV became a worldwide movement and we were being told that it was our duty to end DV, to directly involve ourselves if we witnessed any sign of DV then yes, I would be trying to find out how, what's the safest way to help, what do victims need in those moments etc. Eg I read the other day that if you witness a man being verbally aggressive to his partner you shouldn't challenge him, you should attempt to quietly offer help to the woman. That's something I didn't know, have never read about and probably if I ever saw it my instinct would have been to call the man out. Now I know different.

That's what I was hoping for on these threads.

EarringsandLipstick · 06/06/2020 18:01

Sorry OP:

as the day has gone on my posts are becoming more tired, short, blunt.

They've been rude, blunt and lacking comprehension for all 3 of your threads.

It's not like you've started out clear & cogent & got tired.

You've persistently refused to take on any point made by someone challenging you. Look at how you keep arguing about your points on Travellers. You made an assumption and haven't the grace to accept you didn't understand how it is for many Travellers, and instead argued against every post I've written on this.

I am sorry you are tired. But you've created 3 threads full of ill-will and unclear statements. You perhaps are tiring yourself out.

DontPetTheSweatyStuff · 06/06/2020 18:03

Ok, so I agree I am privileged in the sense that I don't get pulled over, stopped regularly etc because of racial profiling. I agree being white doesn't hold me back in the way being black does for you. But privileged in every other sense of the word, no. I can and will continue my support for BLM and doing what I can to stamp out racism where I see it. Just don't assume that simply because I am white, I can and should do more than what I already do.

EarringsandLipstick · 06/06/2020 18:03

Who are these racist posters, OP?

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 18:06

Patrick I really applaud you for how well you've engaged with posters willing to learn and even those derailing the thread. I certainly couldn't do it as I am tired of engaging with people who just want to "debate".
Racism has been so pervasive in my life. Even though I spent most of my childhood in Africa, I knew from a young age that I would always be seen as lesser than a white person no matter my class or education. Christian Cooper, a harvard graduate, is simply an "African-American man" in the eyes of racists.
Hair is a very personal thing for me and I imagine most black women.
For years it was a way to erase my identity( straightening and relaxing it ) so reading the story about the white woman who perceived it as racism to be refused service in a black hair salon just highlighted the ignorance of the all lives matter brigade. For centuries and even now, mainstream salons do not do black hair (there are so many stories of black actresses and models having to do their own hair and make up) so we built our own salons and yet white people, who refused us, demand entry.
The hair issue, I believe represents white privilege and the issue with what white people generally perceive to be racism towards them. Black people who have been (and still are) excluded from white culture, carve out their own communities and cultures only to be condemned for not being inclusive of white people.

Thank you so much.
I am trying. A lot are just picking up on my angry tones but I've said so many times that I love that people have come to the threads eager to learn and listen. That's the first step. I don't know everything. I don't know how we can begin to tackle racism but I hope this thread goes at least some way.

It's funny you mention the hair thing as I am reminded to post something about that.
As a child I went to a non-black hair salon. I asked for a wash and blow dry. The hairdresser proceeded to do my hair bug halfway through shouted "I CAN'T DO THIS HAIR" I was so so upset. I took the next day off school. My hair was ruined.
What I remember from hairdressing as a child is, you have to carefully research any new salon you may go to because most won't be able to do our hair. No such thing as same day appointments here.
I remember modelling my hair and the manager saying to the stylist it's good you'll get some experience with that kind of hair.

Obviously hair is a small thing in the scale of things but just another example.
The constant touching of our hair. Just leave us alone.

Thanks for your post. I appreciate you're tired of fighting too

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 06/06/2020 18:09

I am appalled. Hence the thread.

Fair enough.

So why do it to others, and refuse to acknowledge what you've done?

You've done it to Travellers. And absolutely refused to accept this.

I'm not a Traveller. Perhaps I have no right to keep on about this. But living in Ireland I've seen their mistreatment over and over again.

I'm thinking of situations where someone from the Traveller community would come to a shop & be refused admittance. So often, they would just turn away. Wouldn't argue, or try to get in. It shares me that it's only as an adult, I look back on this & realise that standing by & accepting this, as I must have often done, makes me part of the problem.

MadgeMak · 06/06/2020 18:14

Bombay, why are your trying to insinuate that OP is not black, but Asian?

Wizadorawobble · 06/06/2020 18:15

I'm not a Traveller. Perhaps I have no right to keep on about this

I thank you for 'keeping on' about it, it's not very often a person outside our communities speaks up for us. Thank you.

qweryuiop · 06/06/2020 18:17

While true, many of the people posting here are not of that mindset. Some are simply naive, equating their problems with people's lived experience of systemic racism. Others came to point out that racism affects some groups of white people too. This was because of the title of the thread. (obv I acknowledge that there hve probably been some outright racists commenting).

People can do more than simply not be racist. Many want to be antiracist. I think that to be antiracist, we need to engage in discussion across all communities and we need to try to understand what racism looks like in the world, in our country and in our local area. This thread does not seem a good place to do that. I apologise @patricksrum if anything I have said has caused you pain or anger, but it has never been my intention.

CoachBombay · 06/06/2020 18:17

I stand corrected, It's the stupid way OP holds and copies posts. On a phone they are hard to follow.

My point still stand, she's devisive, attacking/rude and illinformed about the traveler community.

WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee · 06/06/2020 18:18

A recent thing with hair

In the light of Coronavirus we were discussing PPE and what should be provided on our ward. Some of the nurses said they wanted hair coverings which currently we don't provide. I said I didn't think it necessary and one nurse gently pointed out to me that for most of our nursing staff who are black they cannot just wash their hair every day very easily and that's why they wanted to cover it
I felt ashamed I had not considered that perspective and we ordered some.
It was clearly quite hard for her to speak up about it. She raised it very tentatively but I was so glad she did.

Coronavirus is another aspect to life that is highlighting racial inequality now. The majority of shop floor staff in our Trust are BAME. All the senior managers are white. 100%. You have to go down to ward manager level to find some Asian men.
Some decisions that have been taken put BAME staff at more risk. If there had been representation on the board I think different decisions would have been taken.

I really do feel as though the world is waking up to this though. The Trust are actually starting to listen to BAME staff over this and I think change will come at a local level and I hope in the world.

George Floyds little daughter was quoted as saying 'my daddy changed the world' I really hope she is right.

EarringsandLipstick · 06/06/2020 18:19

@qweryuiop

Excellent post.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/06/2020 18:19

@EarringsandLipstick

I am appalled. Hence the thread.

Fair enough.

So why do it to others, and refuse to acknowledge what you've done?

You've done it to Travellers. And absolutely refused to accept this.

I'm not a Traveller. Perhaps I have no right to keep on about this. But living in Ireland I've seen their mistreatment over and over again.

I'm thinking of situations where someone from the Traveller community would come to a shop & be refused admittance. So often, they would just turn away. Wouldn't argue, or try to get in. It shares me that it's only as an adult, I look back on this & realise that standing by & accepting this, as I must have often done, makes me part of the problem.

I think this is what is making me so angry. Op is accusing white people and white posters of being racist, I was accused of being a white supremacist yesterday, and yet she is exhibiting similar behaviours to other races. Are you addressing your own prejudices op as you are telling all of us to do? Will you go and educate yourself about the Traveller community and the racism and discrimination that they face?
PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 18:21

@EarringsandLipstick
I clearly said are becoming more ^tired, short, blunt.
^
It's not like you've started out clear & cogent & got tired.
^Maybe not on MN but I did start out that way.
^
You've persistently refused to take on any point made by someone challenging you. Look at how you keep arguing about your points on Travellers. You made an assumption and haven't the grace to accept you didn't understand how it is for many Travellers, and instead argued against every post I've written on this.
^I haven't refused to take it, I've responded.
At least you now understand that travellers benefit from their white privilege and we don't have the same.^^*

I am sorry you are tired. But you've created 3 threads full of ill-will and unclear statements. You perhaps are tiring yourself out.*^
^I'm physically tired because of my illness.
But I'm mentally tired due to repeating myself to posters like you. I am choosing to do this so perhaps you could argue your latter point.^

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 18:22

@DontPetTheSweatyStuff Thanks for acknowledging that. As pp said if takes a brave person to admit that.
Thank you for helping change our future for the better.

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 18:25

@WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thanks for trying and trying and trying again for us.
You have a great understanding and empathy of my anger.
To

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/06/2020 18:26

Isn't it funny how last night when I was really struggling to understand some of your lengthier posts op, because I have cognitive impairment that gets so much worse when I'm tired, you and some other posters accused me of posting with questionable motives, and all sorts of other frankly disablist comments. Yet now, you're asking for consideration because you are tired and struggling?

EarringsandLipstick · 06/06/2020 18:26

@Wizadorawobble

I thank you for 'keeping on' about it, it's not very often a person outside our communities speaks up for us. Thank you.

Thank you Wizard.

I don't want to derail OP's thread but it shocks me how much prejudice about Travellers was around all through my childhood & we just accepted it 😟

The lack of understanding that we had (still have?) in Ireland about Traveller culture was awful. 'Why would they live in a caravan when they could live in a house?' ' Why get married so young?' 'Why have so many children?'

The excellent Traveller's advocacy organisations in Ireland have done much to move this on but I know there's more to do.

And OP, to bring it back to this thread, it was the sharing of experience, the naming & calling out of prejudice that has moved this on. That's what I feel has been lost so much in these threads.

WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee · 06/06/2020 18:27

I am going to quit for a while now and watch Black Panther with the DC.
Yes we did choose it deliberately

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