You're white you cannot experience racism 3

[PatricksRum]

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

[quote EarringsandLipstick]@Wizadorawobble

I thank you for 'keeping on' about it, it's not very often a person outside our communities speaks up for us. Thank you.

Thank you Wizard.

I don't want to derail OP's thread but it shocks me how much prejudice about Travellers was around all through my childhood & we just accepted it 😟

The lack of understanding that we had (still have?) in Ireland about Traveller culture was awful. 'Why would they live in a caravan when they could live in a house?' ' Why get married so young?' 'Why have so many children?'

The excellent Traveller's advocacy organisations in Ireland have done much to move this on but I know there's more to do.

And OP, to bring it back to this thread, it was the sharing of experience, the naming & calling out of prejudice that has moved this on. That's what I feel has been lost so much in these threads.

[/quote]
Not just in Ireland. It's state sanctioned prejudice in England against Travellers.

I could be picking out parts of your awful posts all day long OP.

You seem wilfully unable to accept one single point about your own prejudice, while berating others.

At least you now understand that travellers benefit from their white privilege and we don't have the same.

Shame. On. You.

Really. This is so awful to read. Travellers should now be grateful they have 'white privilege' 😳 seriously, what's wrong with you??

After what you've read in previous posts, you still can't accept that language matters, can you? NameChange wrote well about this & rightly called me out because in some cases it may not be obvious that an individual is a member of the Travelling community & they may avoid prejudice

Well, that's brilliant!

Let's throw the loaded term of 'white privilege' at them then.

How about these facts:

• Traveller men now living on average 15 years less than men in the general population and Traveller women living on average 11.5 years less than women in the general population.

• The suicide rates among Traveller men were identified as 7 times higher than suicide rates among men in the general population.

• Education levels are very low with only about half of Traveller adults having completed at least primary school education.

Source: All-Ireland Traveller Health Study (2010). (Apologies that these are from 10 years ago & will have changed but see here www.paveepoint.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Final-traveller-report.pdf for more recent info, which shows the problem is still a live issue)

How dare you talk about 'white privilege' in this context?

HearHooves

You're right. I remember this last night & how you were addressed.

I'm sympathetic to OP having a disability / health issues but it seems they are rolled out as an excuse for her behaviour now.

I stand corrected, It's the stupid way OP holds and copies posts. On a phone they are hard to follow.

No. The OP stated that she grew up in a Muslim household. That post had no formatting issues. You almost immediately responded with your rant.
*
My point still stand, she's devisive, attacking/rude*

You were rude. And attacking. You told her to fuck off, twice. Fair enough you admitted your mistake, you lied about why you made that mistake though instead of just holding your hands up and apologising.

What about
What about
What about
What about
What about
What about

I posted on your last thread patricks to say thank you for the threads and that you had added to my understanding - in fact the same posters who are coming back to argue and argue and derail and "me-rail" and berate and berate you are adding to my understanding. It's an (admittedly very small) insight into how tiring and upsetting it must be, not only to be subjected to racism but then to be told you're talking about it wrongly and you should only talk about it in the way they want you to.

What I love most is a load of people telling me how to construct my feelings, how to explain my frustration, my oppression.As if we haven't tried to do it kindly

Yet seem to be ignoring their feelings and frustration.

This is our time this is our fight

Would you care to explain why it is our time and our fight but it isn’t mine ? I’m there. You said we should have our moment - but that isn’t including me.

I’m tired. Really tired. But I’m doing my damnedest not to be inflammatory or rude and yet still I got posts deleted when I wasnt. I merely countered.

And then I have to wonder why there is oppression and why people are silenced. It is because we aren’t permitted to communicate. Not fully.

There is a well worn phrase of ‘United we stand, divided we fall’

It is our moment. Our time. But only together - really being together and standing side by side, acknowledging difference, sharing experiences, that we can rise and fly together.

I firmly believe that division and refusal to fully acknowledge pain experienced by others, be it black brown or white pain, will prevent us all being truly free.

Oh coach

And can I just say to those who heard me a resounding thank you.

You know who you are. Thank you.

I know that one day - one day - it will be all ok. And it will be because we listened. We heard. And we went forward. Together.

Thank you.

I have absolutely no idea what CoachBombay's post was actually about (the one where they told OP to fuck off). I think they may be mixing up different posters perhaps.

@Dreep

And can I just say to those who heard me a resounding thank you.

You know who you are. Thank you.

I know that one day - one day - it will be all ok. And it will be because we listened. We heard. And we went forward. Together.

Thank you.

I accept my white privilege.
The closest I’ve ever come to racism is having a gun pointed at me in South Africa for being white in an entire black community... but even as a teenager I knew that was due to anger provoked by the years of oppression by others that looked like me. Doesn’t stop them falling under the “racist” bracket as that person had open hate for anyone white.

And I had a boyfriend I was wanting to marry who was black. His mum told us it couldn’t happen and harassed me for two years to end our relationship. I did for both our sake in the end. Again, i understood it came from the same place of anger.

I bring up my DC to understand white privilege and to be actively anti racist. All (under 10) could explain to you why they have been privileged and why it’s important to stand against it continuing in their lives.

But this post is absolutely vile and hideous. The way in which it has been led, expressed and managed by Mumsnet and the OP is embarrassing and unhelpful and unsupportive of the BLM movement. How do we, as people who support the movement, support this way of talking to each other? The BLM supporters and my black friends and colleagues have all been nothing but kind and supportive of people with questions or people who are behind them. You, OP, are decisive and lacking humility.

🌻

@Dreep

Would you care to explain why it is our time and our fight but it isn’t mine ? I’m there. You said we should have our moment - but that isn’t including me.

I’m tired. Really tired. But I’m doing my damnedest not to be inflammatory or rude and yet still I got posts deleted when I wasnt. I merely countered.

I support you 💯

I'm not sure if you've seen the supportive posts for you, you weren't @ in all of them & I'm not sure if you were on the thread at the time.

But I and others are in awe of your restraint, calmness and well-constructed points. You've been treated dreadfully by OP.

Also tho, you've made the same points, repeatedly & these are literally ignored by OP & others.

Eyesight just wrote:

to be subjected to racism but then to be told you're talking about it wrongly and you should only talk about it in the way they want you to.

This NOT what's happening.

Not once has someone told OP she's talking about racism wrongly.

We have, however, challenged her prejudice towards others.

Dreep has said clearly she does not feel included in OP's 'moment'. And yet, OP has belittled her, ignored her viewpoint & refused to apologise (I asked if she would consider this, earlier on this thread)

How can this be right? How can OP get to tell other black people that they are wrong and she is right?

She has used such nasty language to Dreep. But Dreep has remained temperate and polite. Whether I agreed with Dreep or not (I happen to), I'd be appreciative of her approach & respect of others.

It's this lack of respect I keep calling out the OP on. That's not telling her how to talk racism. It's about respecting others & their viewpoints.

Dreep

💐💐💐💐💐

Dreep

💐💐💐💐💐

How nice that everyone is patting each other on the back, congratulating and saying thank yous and giving flowers to each other. Lovely.

Whilst either arguing with or ignoring the actual person who started this thread trying to get their own voice heard - who has been shouted down again and again and again on this thread.

How self centred people can be.

(I have read back and I think Coach mistook the OP for someone else when they told Patricks to fuck off. And then instead of an apology - blamed the OP for this and the "stupid way" they post ).

How nice that everyone is patting each other on the back, congratulating and saying thank yous and giving flowers to each other. Lovely.

Whilst either arguing with or ignoring the actual person who started this thread trying to get their own voice heard - who has been shouted down again and again and again on this thread.

How self centred people can be.

(I have read back and I think Coach mistook the OP for someone else when they told Patricks to fuck off. And then instead of an apology - blamed the OP for this and the "stupid way" they post ).

@Dreep

❤️

@MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive exactly.

@MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive are you complaining that people are showing each other basic human kindness and empathy? Yes, the OP has the absolute right to be heard but you cant demand respect and for everyone to listen if you aren't prepared to give the same back.

No.

Whilst either arguing with or ignoring the actual person who started this thread trying to get their own voice heard - who has been shouted down again and again and again on this thread.

@MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive

How can you persist with this?

Where was OP shouted down?

Dreep is a case in point. She has expressed her views clearly & respectfully. She is black. She does not feel part of the 'moment' that OP keeps declaring it is.

She had been shouted down & belittled by OP.

Did you read my posts challenging OP's assertion that Travellers can claim 'white privilege'?

She won't accept other's lived experience. She won't countenance an alternative viewpoint eg Dreep who surely has authority to speak on racism and how it's addressed?

OP has almost entirely failed to express her viewpoint, or engaged in any discussion or been prepared to offer solutions.

That's fine.

But she has also started a thread (x 3) in AIBU and refused to entertain any debate. She's wilfully twisted others points. She has shown a complete lack of awareness or concern for others' struggles & in fact demeaned them.

When it's pointed out to her, she won't accept it & attacks back at others.

And your takeaway is that she has been shouted down 😳

No body has mentioned black on black gang violence. Black people are mostly killed by black people. Why has no one mentioned this?

@Stay123

No body has mentioned black on black gang violence. Black people are mostly killed by black people. Why has no one mentioned this?

It was mentioned on the previous threads.

It didn't end well.

@stay123 - black on black violence is being discussed within the context of UK and US BLM. In particular the police in both countries assuming initially that every young black man who is stabbed / shot is part of a gang is particularly damaging. As it delays murder investigations.

I stayed away from this thread because I knew how it would go and against my better judgement hopped on and what do I know the same little racists and those brimming over with white privilege are here arguing how their lives are so much harder.

I wonder when MN will challenge both overt and engrained racism. This place is painted with “WHITE FACES ARE ARE THE STARTING POINT, EVERYTHING ELSE IS OTHER. But because they’ve got a black friend or once listened to Lemonade it’s all fine.