To be upset over chlorinated chicken and considering leaving the uk

[Lovesgood]

I know a lot of people saw this coming. Its really upsetting how the uk is now beginning to bow down to our new masters. Im seriously considering to leave the country as chlorinated chicken will only be the beginning. They will completely ruin our farmers and foodstandards. And once theyve done that, who knows what else the US will demand, only for the UK to just roll over... Im quite sad over this actually. Any suggestions as to where to go? Whats Ireland like?

Just posted here for traffic.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-british-markets-us-trade-deal-trump-a9548431.html#gsc.tab=0

“ The price of food doesn't have anything to do with the income level of the buyer. Lobster will always be more expensive than chicken. It's simple economics, not a social judgement.”

We’re not talking about Lobster, though.
We’re talking about the fact that, at the moment, poor people don’t have to pay a premium for food that cannot meet the current basic standards in the UK,

It was stated in the 2019 Conservative manifesto that standards would be protected, and Government ministers have been assuring us ever since so, no, people did not vote for it and did not want it.

@Clavinova - I don't get your point. US meat which is imported now has to meet EU standards and be labelled. We are talking about lifting those restrictions.

We’re talking about the fact that, at the moment, poor people don’t have to pay a premium for food that cannot meet the current basic standards in the UK

Why would you assume that more competition, from companies with lower costs of production would cause prices to rise? The overwhelming evidence from economic research indicates that competition lowers prices.

The Causal Effect of Competition on Prices and Quality: Evidence from a Field Experiment

This paper provides experimental evidence on the effect of increased competition on prices and quality in the retail sector. We randomized the entry of 61 firms into 72 markets serving the beneficiaries of a conditional cash transfer program in the Dominican Republic. Six months after the intervention entry into the market led to reductions in prices ranging from 2 to 6 percent and to a statistically significant improvement in self-reported service quality. Prices dropped more in areas where the number of entrants was larger. Competition seems to have driven part of the clientele away from incumbent retailers.

And it's completely up to you if you want to mandate that imports meet current standards. As I said earlier, US producers sell massive amounts of meat that does meet those standards here already and I'm sure they'd be happy to see it to you too.

History shows that whenever regulations around food are low, the amount of consumer fraud rockets. Eventually people put two and two together, and work out that eating food that was made by scraping the top inch off an abattoir floor might not be the best thing for public health. as fans of the founding of the FDA would know. (There was a word for a New York cut of meat that was effectively just that, wish I could remember it).

And of course in Brave Ol' Blighty. bakers worked out just how much chalk, alum, sawdust and other "bulking agents" they could add to flour and still be able to flog a loaf.

It really should not be a source of national pride that the UK ended the war with a healthier population than it went in with, simply due to the fact that rationing actually meant a lot of people got more food than they would have ordinarily.

Relying on any commercial enterprise to strive for the highest standards off their own bat is the equivalent of waiting for a unicorn to fly overhead, ridden by Elvis whilst shitting gold bars. Whilst it would be hugely impressive, you'd be a long time.

There absolutely should be food standards and rigorous inspections to enforce them. Has anyone on this thread questioned that?

And some commercial enterprises do strive for higher standards because there is a profitable market to be sold to by doing so. For example, as I cited up thread:

www.nimanranch.com

totallyyesno
I don't get your point.

My original point was that the pp was unaware that the EU allowed any meat produced in the US to be sold in the EU - they do - and the European Parliament recently voted to increase the quota of that meat. Obviously the US will have to negotiate a separate quota for that same meat with the UK.

We are talking about lifting those restrictions.

Or perhaps a negotiating tactic in a trade negotiation and we won't lift those restrictions at all.

2017 Canada and EU settle dispute on beef import restrictions following trade deal -

"The terms of the CETA deal allows Canada to export 50,000 tonnes of hormone beef duty-free" ...

"Canada had been pushing for a large enough quota to make it worthwhile for producers to set up hormone-free herds, which are generally more expensive to manage."

"The government had also looked for assurances from the EU that European governments would not set up non-tariff barriers to Canadian meat, using the back door to prevent Canadian products from competing with their own."

globalnews.ca/news/3783665/canada-and-eu-settle-dispute-on-beef-import-restrictions-following-trade-deal/

Switzerland appear to be in the early stages of a trade deal with the United States. Agriculture is mentioned here, but nothing about chlorine-washed chicken etc. Are Swiss voters similarly worried about food standards dropping, or is it just Swiss farmers worried about tariffs and profitability?

www.swissinfo.ch/eng/talks-with-trump_swiss-economics-minister-wants-to-move-us-trade-deal-forward/45518566

2017 Canada and EU settle dispute on beef import restrictions following trade deal

Didn't the EU tell the UK to fuck off with it's "Canada+" ideas ? And indeed ideas of trying to crowbar any existing deal into an EU-UK one ? Or did I miss something ?

Switzerland appear to be in the early stages of a trade deal with the United States. Agriculture is mentioned here, but nothing about chlorine-washed chicken etc. Are Swiss voters similarly worried about food standards dropping, or is it just Swiss farmers worried about tariffs and profitability?

Have we started a game of comparing unlike things ? I'm really good at this.

My turn .... Belgium and Brazil

Next.

SerendipityJane
Have we started a game of comparing unlike things? I'm really good at this.

"Trade experts [i.e. anti-Brexit trade experts] cite the EU’s defence of its stance on hormone-treated meat, and a similar battle over chlorine-washed chicken, as evidence of the trading bloc’s power to set food standards which its smaller neighbours, such as Switzerland or post-Brexit Britain in future, are obliged to abide by."

Which is why I asked the question. Are there similar hysterics in Switzerland over chlorine-washed chicken?

Didn't the EU tell the UK to f--k off with it's "Canada+" ideas? And indeed ideas of trying to crowbar any existing deal into an EU-UK one?
What's that got to do with quotas of hormone-free beef from Canada and the United States?

Which is why I asked the question. Are there similar hysterics in Switzerland over chlorine-washed chicken?

I'll worry over what goes on in Switzerland when I know the UK will be OK. Until then it's just whatabouttery intended to defocus the thread until there's not real thrust to it anymore.

And if there are, they won't be written in English, but French, German or Italian. So you would be unlikely to find them anyway. Even if you were looking. Which you weren't

What's that got to do with quotas of hormone-free beef from Canada and the United States?

I'll remind you that you mentioned:

"The terms of the CETA deal allows Canada to export 50,000 tonnes of hormone beef duty-free"

CETA is a Canadian-EU agreement. So to echo your question why is it being mentioned in a discussion about UK-US trade. Unless (again) you were trying to squirrelize the thread for your own reasons.

It's already a done deal that the UK is going to get exactly what the US tells it. That ship sailed long ago. The only reason for fanning threads like this is so that future scholars can see it didn't happen without protest or notice. And that some people were trying to secure a better life for their grandchildren.

It's already a done deal that the UK is going to get exactly what the US tells it. That ship sailed long ago.

Why do you assume this? We currently do about $250 billion per year in bilateral trade. I buy Barry's Tea in my local supermarket. You buy all sorts of American products - aircraft, computers, pharmaceuticals, etc. Neither side is desperate for a deal. We can just carry on under WTO rules if need be.

The government made an explicit pledge to stick to EU food standards/ animal welfare standards when Brexit was kicking off however many years ago.

The UK were instrumental in introducing those standards, and the government said, UK is committed to maintaining those standards. Specifically in response to questions around meat imports from USA.

It seems not to bother a lot of people that they have performed a total about turn.

Everyone knows that this meat will be so over the place as it will be cheap. Restaurants, cafes, take aways, fast food shops, ready meals etc.

Everyone knows that millions will buy it in the supermarkets as it will be cheap, and even more so now as we are about to enter a massive global recession.

In fact the recession will be used to explain this U-turn (even though it was obviously always going to happen) and will also be handy when they start weakening our employment laws (which they also said they wouldn't do).

Why do you assume this? We currently do about $250 billion per year in bilateral trade. I buy Barry's Tea in my local supermarket. You buy all sorts of American products - aircraft, computers, pharmaceuticals, etc. Neither side is desperate for a deal. We can just carry on under WTO rules if need be.

Why would I assume a 100kg (sorry 220 lb) weight that is rolling halfway down a slope would just stop there ?

And mentioning the WTO in any discussion about the US really needs to bear in mind POTUS decision to withdraw the US from the WTO

foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/27/world-trade-organization-united-states-departure-china/

So trying to soothe, placate or downright con me by chirping in with that little gem does make me wonder if you are not that well informed, or pursuing another agenda beloved of Brexiteers saying "no deal, no worry, we'll just trade on WTO terms". Which must be a lot easier to say than understand, because they can never explain what the devil it means.

And mentioning the WTO in any discussion about the US really needs to bear in mind POTUS decision to withdraw the US from the WTO

The by-line in your link states;

"many experts warn that such a move could seriously set back U.S. power and prestige."

"Why would you assume that more competition, from companies with lower costs of production would cause prices to rise? The overwhelming evidence from economic research indicates that competition lowers prices."

Why would you completely change the focus of the point I raised?

Why would I assume a 100kg (sorry 220 lb) weight that is rolling halfway down a slope would just stop there ?

And mentioning the WTO in any discussion about the US really needs to bear in mind POTUS decision to withdraw the US from the WTO

I'm still not clear on why you think that the US can just dictate terms to the UK for a trade deal.

And Trump needs congressional approval to get out of the WTO, which is sorely unlikely. According to the polls he's also likely to be out of the White House by January.

Congress Can Stop Trump From Ditching WTO, Analysts Say

The by-line in your link states; [] "many experts warn that such a move could seriously set back U.S. power and prestige."

And ?

Countries don't always do what's best for themselves. Especially when they are run by an elite. The UK and US are currently trying to outprove each other on that one.

I'll take the US withdrawing from the WHO as an indication they'll follow up with pulling out of the WTO. You are free to cite facts to the contrary. Or even make shit up. It's all the same in the end, as we've seen.

(The by-line in your link states; "many experts warn that such a move could seriously set back U.S. power and prestige.")

And?

This -
MissConductUS -
"I'm still not clear on why you think that the US can just dictate terms to the UK for a trade deal."

I'm still not clear on why you think that the US can just dictate terms to the UK for a trade deal.

Why does a dog lick it's bollocks ?

And Trump needs congressional approval to get out of the WTO, which is sorely unlikely.

That's as maybe. But I can recall nearly 4 years ago being patted on the head and told "not to worry" about Trump as "congress this" and "congress that" ... (looks at the current state of the world and US) ... that went well didn't it ?

It's probably just me being old and cranky. But to use an analogy that Americans can get, I'd suggest that rather than relying on the safety catch on a gun you give to a lunatic, saying "not to worry, the safetys on", it might be a much better strategy to not give them the gun in the first place ? Because right now it seems you have a POTUS that is fiddling around looking for ways to remove the safety before he discovers the "automatic" setting on the damn thing.

Any Brit who thinks that an agricultural trade deal with the USA
will benefit the UK
needs to give their head a wobble

The EU has neve signed a free trade deal with the USA
because they are a PITA about nitpicking
and prone to breaking deals with weaker partners
(same as China do)

For the last 40 years the UK has had the EEC/EU umbrella protecting it
now that is gone

Why does a dog lick it's bollocks ?

In this case the dog is consenting. The US might try to dictate the terms of a trade deal, but unless the US trade representative has acquired mind control powers you are free to say no. Import your meat from elsewhere (like the EU) or increase UK domestic production.

In this case the dog is consenting.

I guess that confirms you really are American. (Wonders if I found a new way for AI to winkle out spies ...)

Would it be a bit easier to not buy the chlorinated chicken and buy British rather than moving Countries? I think it may

Would it be a bit easier to not buy the chlorinated chicken and buy British rather than moving Countries? I think it may

It would be even easier to RTFT and you couldn't be bothered to do that.