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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

999 replies

PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 18:31

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep Blush
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*
You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*
OP posts:
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14
PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:39

Yet you expect white people to apologise for a murdering police officer in the US? What kind of nonsense is that?

Find me a post where I've said this. I'll wait.
@peppapots

OP posts:
P999 · 04/06/2020 22:39

OP, where do you live?

LesleysChestnutBob · 04/06/2020 22:39

You think I'd apologise for a black man drug dealing simply because I'm black? What kind of nonsense is this?

Well that's a bit rich when you're expecting white people to flagellate themselves over slavery.

And that's not even the most ridiculous thing you've said. In the last thread you said you couldnt step foot in another country or get on a plane because you'd be shot.

You also demand that white people shut up and listen, but at the same time should add their voices to yours to support BLM but let you speak. But at no times should any white person ask any questions because otherwise the black person is being asked to educate them and that's not their job.

I don't wonder that people run out of patience with you quite quickly OP.

WhoAteAllTheWotsits · 04/06/2020 22:42

@IHateCoronavirus it’s a great shame that the civil rights protests of the 60’s didn’t change things for good.

It’s a great shame that the liberation of the slaves in 1865 didn’t truly liberate them.

It’s a great shame that the bombing of the MOVE organisation, including children, didn’t force more people to take action.

Why should black people bother with trying to get people to listen? If you don’t get it now, you never will.

P999 · 04/06/2020 22:42

OP, when I asked where you live, i just mean what country or city. Is it UK or overseas?

PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:44

*You know what I read this and my first reaction is :

You are not giving me a chance , if I don't do anything but agree with you , you say I'm wrong but won't explain why .

You are so hostile and I haven't done anything, why are you so angry with someone you have never spoken to.

Then I think some more and I guess this is how you feel all the time in the UK and that's terrible .

It's not my experience and it's not crossed my mind that everyone is not treated equally because I don't see it happening.

Is this somewhere close or am I still not there?

I'm not looking to offend .
I just think my perception is everyone is treated the same way as me because that is what I see and evidently that is not true from this thread.*

@Lilly11a

I honestly have no problem with someone disagreeing with me. But this is not "share your experiences" "Tell me if you disagree" it's "this is how I feel and why. You don't have to agree but just listen and fight racism"
So I appreciate you thinking some more and instead of just responding by saying "You are wrong Patricks. I have been through xyz" you are listening. Thank you

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:45

I say that as a mixed race woman. You are damaging this fight op with your othering and your hate.

You're wrong. I am not solely responsible for our fight. In fact, it's a sad state of affairs where we even have to fight to not be killed. Just think about that. Think about what's actually wrong here.

OP posts:
Buccanarab · 04/06/2020 22:46

Your experiences don't matter right now. We're talking about your race killing another of our people.

As I've brought up on previous threads there are many, many other injustices and persecutions going on in the world right now, some are far more brutal and horrific than what's going on in America right now and all of which we in the west turn a blind eye to.

Just because this is important to you doesn't mean other people's experiences and feelings aren't as equally important. To think otherwise makes you no better than the people you condemn.

As a random example there's been over 25,000 Rohingya muslim people killed in Myanmar since 2017, with 700,000 people displaced. Gang rapes and mass executions are common and there's no sign of it ending. Do these people matter less than those in America simple because they're not western? Can you see the hypocrisy in that?

The racism faced by black people in the west, in particular america, is indeed shocking and an issue that needs to be addressed but to point the finger at all white people and tell them "you're the problem, you're experience is invalid, you're opinion is wrong" is not the answer.
We should be uniting to tackle the issue at heart, which in my opinion is elitism. The average white westerner has no more power or influnece to change the system than the average black westerner.

Humanity has always operated a hierarchy, with a few at the top, some in the middle and most at the bottom. Unfortunately today the top have become so far detached from the rest of us it's simply mind boggling. The three richest Americans, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and Jeff Bezos, own more than the bottom 50% of Americans, with those in the Forbes 400 owning more than every black American combined. Incredibly American billionaires have gotten $430+ billion richer durinh the pandemic while the rest of us suffer.
This issue is present across the world with the richest 1% owning over half the worlds wealth. That means roughly 75,000,000 people own more than 7,425,000,000 people.
Address that massive inequality and redistrubite wealth more fairly then you'll also beging to reduce other societal injustices like racism but that requires all of us outwith the top to work together and not be at each others throats.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is yourdutyto understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you

I also disagree with this. Those trying to change the system need to be the one's to enage and educate the rest. You've stated yourself repeatedly that white people can't understand so help us to. You want me to call out racism wherever I see it? No problem but I need to know what I'm looking for besides the obvious. You need me to change certain things I do, say or think? No problem but I need to know what they are and why they're an issue, if I don't already. You need me to stand shoulder to shoulder in the streets with you? No problem I'll be there because I want to live in a fair and equal society for everyone but to do that we all need to stop creating divisions between us and start working together.

IHateCoronavirus · 04/06/2020 22:46

[quote WhoAteAllTheWotsits]@IHateCoronavirus it’s a great shame that the civil rights protests of the 60’s didn’t change things for good.

It’s a great shame that the liberation of the slaves in 1865 didn’t truly liberate them.

It’s a great shame that the bombing of the MOVE organisation, including children, didn’t force more people to take action.

Why should black people bother with trying to get people to listen? If you don’t get it now, you never will.[/quote]
Eh? Confused I never said we shouldn’t ask people not to listen. What I am advocating is an approach which encourages and unites rather than blames and alienates (like the shouty approach of some of the pps on here).

BolloxtoGender · 04/06/2020 22:48

Yabu. Tone is all off and divisive language used, not great way to start engaging in or opening up a dialogue. It’s like reading off some race studies critical theory script.

PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:49

I want to say something to the posters who are saying the response to murder of someone because of their skin colour, to fear for the life of a child because of their skin colour should be reasonable, rational, kind, polite, socially skilled and never show any compassion or understanding for those with a less refined, mature or acceptable response.*

Hi @Neome

That's a great point.
However it may come across, I'm trying my hardest not to personally attack anyone. I haven't called anyone racist yet I've been called racist and a whole load of other things on this thread.
I'm really trying not to attack anyone. However I'm not trying not to offend. I'm not expecting agreement. I'm expecting an ear and a thought at minimum.

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:51

If this isn't you this isn't directed at you.

Op aimed her comments at all white people. I think it was she who directed it at all of us.

🙄 That's all I can say to that. All I can say.

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:52

Speaking 'at' rather than 'to' people is never going to go down well.

Let me ask you how you would address someone who stood by whilst someone murdered your family?

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:54

The weapon was recovered, the person he obtained it from was arrested confessed and was convicted. Stop being disingenuous and trying to add things that weren't said.

@R1R2 I'll ask again. Why should I apologise if Mark Duggan did something wrong? And we're have I done so?

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 04/06/2020 22:55

However it may come across, I'm trying my hardest not to personally attack anyone.

You've got to be kidding?

Leeeeeyaaa · 04/06/2020 22:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WhoAteAllTheWotsits · 04/06/2020 22:55

@IHateCoronavirus but the time for civilised and rational discussions to encourage unity has passed - it is time for people to get angry, to be awakened to what has and continues to happen and to put pressure on those in positions of influence to make real changes.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 04/06/2020 22:56

Let me ask you how you would address someone who stood by whilst someone murdered your family?

Who on here has done that?

PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:56

Well that's a bit rich when you're expecting white people to flagellate themselves over slavery.
Where have I asked white people to apologise for slavery?*

And that's not even the most ridiculous thing you've said. In the last thread you said you couldnt step foot in another country or get on a plane because you'd be shot.*
Not what I said at all. I said it's a privilege you are able to jump on a plane and go to another country without fearing you will suffer racial abuse.
@LesleysChestnutBob

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:57

@P999 Can I ask what relevance my residence has on my fight?

OP posts:
WhenISnappedAndFarted · 04/06/2020 22:59

I'm white. I've not experienced racism, I've never seen it and if I did I would most certainly challenge it. To judge someone on the colour of their skin tone is disgusting.

The only experience I've had out of the home that's made me feel nervous and uncomfortable was due to a man. I don't experience that daily and I also didn't fear for my life so I have no idea how black people cope with a lot worse and daily. I have no idea what it feels like to fear police or fear for my life because of the colour of my skin.

I'm with you OP. I'm still trying to educate myself and I've learnt a lot over the last couple of days. I'm still learning but as a white person I am by your side and will do what I can. It has to change.

PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 22:59

As I've brought up on previous threads there are many, many other injustices and persecutions going on in the world right now,

I also disagree with this. Those trying to change the system need to be the one's to enage and educate the rest. You've stated yourself repeatedly that white people can't understand so help us to. You want me to call out racism wherever I see it? No problem but I need to know what I'm looking for besides the obvious.

I'm speechless. Honestly speechless.

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 04/06/2020 23:00

@PatricksRum

Yet you expect white people to apologise for a murdering police officer in the US? What kind of nonsense is that?

Find me a post where I've said this. I'll wait.
@peppapots

What did you mean by this then?

We're talking about your race killing another of our people.

Greyblueeyes · 04/06/2020 23:01

I am American, and white. I would be angry if I were the OP, too. We should All be angry about systemic racism towards blacks. Right now is just not the time for white people to be complaining and trotting out the old, "but, but, but...what about my experience?" Can't we for once just be quiet and try to understand the very real and painful experiences that blacks face everyday?

As far as the looting, that is not the BLM protestors. The looters are taking advantage of the unrest to commit crimes. Many of them aren't even from the cities they loot in.

PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 23:01

Let me ask you how you would address someone who stood by whilst someone murdered your family?

Who on here has done that?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras What would your response be to them?

OP posts: