Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

999 replies

PatricksRum · 04/06/2020 18:31

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep Blush
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*
You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*
OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Dreep · 06/06/2020 11:21

You're not exactly making yourself look good here. Aren't you a bit ashamed to be like this and hectoring so much when the whole point is she wants to say something important and it's not about you.

The same could be said back.

And ‘oh the irony’ too.

We all need to listen.

This isn’t about one person. It concerns everyone.

Flaxmeadow · 06/06/2020 11:23

I use to live in Manchester. To get rid of one crime ridden area with gangs the council flattened all the tower blocks, rehomed everyone around the region and build low rise housing in it's place. The clubs and bars refused to have certain nights and play certain music until this happened as they were told they would lose their licence

Would this certain music sometimes be extremely violent and extremely misogynistic by any chance?

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 11:23

There is a history of oppression of white people.
Where please?
Where in history have black people oppressed white people?*

Also white girls in places like Rotherham and Rochdale etc have recently been, and still are being, racially oppressed by gangs.
Are the victims families forming gangs? *
Racial motivated misogyny not racism.
It says something that you and many posters only have this to refer to.
Also Asians aren't black hth.

No they are not. The vast majority of under privileged people in England are white
Because the majority of people in England are white.
Calculate it properly and it will be the opposite.

It matters because you keep bringing it up. You keep claiming that white people are killing black people. Provide the statistics.
I've not once brought up black people killing black people.
I don't need to provide anything.*

I answered a post that claimed black kids join gangs because they are not given opportunities, so why are we not seeing these type of gangs, black or white, and high rates of stabbings, in more deprived places, with less opportunities, outside London?*
Because a high proportion of black people live in London.
Black people lack opportunities because they're black. White people don't.
You can be black and poor.
I've answered already.*
*

OP posts:
joystir59 · 06/06/2020 11:24

White people cannot experience racism, just as straight people cannot experience homophobia and men cannot experience sexism. You cannot experience being part of an oppressed group unless you are a member of that group.

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 11:24

@BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup Apologies.
I read your post and thought that racist poster returned with another tale of the afro hair salon and kmt Grin

OP posts:
MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive · 06/06/2020 11:27

I would say keep going as you are doing the OP's "job" for her very well but it really is getting tiring.

Why can't you step away from the thread? Don't you think you've said what you want to say? What is your motivation?

I really would read the fucking room here and try and take it on board - as you're so keen on insisting to be told how you need to act.

You've been told. And yet you won't listen.

I would guarantee the vast majority of people reading this thread are thinking you are proving OP's point and becoming very tiring indeed. Can't you just let her speak and let other people talk instead of wanting to argue? Seriously.

joystir59 · 06/06/2020 11:29

I've experienced racial.prejudice when travelling in countries where white people were in a minority and where white people also represented colonial oppression. The prejudice I experienced was due to colonial history coming back at me. I've also experienced race-related sexual harassment and abuse as a white woman travelling in areas where culturally white women are assumed to be gagging for it. And women in any case are second class citizens. But I have never or will neverexperience systemic racism.

GeorgianaD · 06/06/2020 11:29

Lots of fruitful discussion here. As a black woman I welcome it. One thing that hasn’t been raised is the fact that some of us, particularly those of us who might be successful, become the token black friend. It is nauseating and insulting and we see right through it.

MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive · 06/06/2020 11:30

God it's like men posting on threads about sexual harassment to say what about me?! Shut up women and listen to me. I want to tell you all about me.

It is fucking INFURATING. It's so self important and yes, it is embarrassing. I'm embarrassed for you that you don't have the self awareness to realise this and even when you're told you keep trying to shout over everyone and make it about you.

Flaxmeadow · 06/06/2020 11:30

Flax meadow you are just wrong on the facts here.

The North West had the highest homicide rate in the UK last year not London.

Actually I think that would be West Yorkshire. Also WY has the highest serious crime rates but I'm specifically asking about the gangs doing the stabbings in London

When you say 'why do we not see stabbings in deprived Northern cities?' Well we do. Of course there are drug gangs and killings in Manchester, Leeds and Bradford.

I agree but these are a very different kind of gang, often related to the heroin trade

There was a recent documentary on the BBC about the police shooting of an Asian man in Bradford and the drug industry behind that.

Yes and Bradford is the European epicentre of the heroin trade. These are highly organised and extremely wealthy organised crime gangs, also involved in people trafficking but I'm taling more about the youth (of all ethnic backgrounds)

It really looks like you are saying that there are only drug gangs and stabbings in London because more black people live there.

No I didnt say that. See my replies above. I know there are higher crime rates in the north and probably higher murder rates

I'm talking about the differences in younger gangs

That is an overtly wrong and racist thing to say. Please clarify that you are not saying that or retract your statement.

Why is it racist?

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 11:30

@MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive
Thank you for your post.
I think, at first glance, I can understand someone reading the opening post and few subsequent replies from me and thinking, "she is so fucking rude" (I am a bit) but then you ask why
You then read on and on from posters like @Abbccc @Flaxmeadow @BeardedMum @Hearhoovesthinkzebras and you're like, "do you know what, I fucking get it"
You're right. They're pricing my point exactly.
Just shut up and listen as I've said tirelessly.
Even @AvranaKernsBestSpider wrote posts to @Hearhoovesthinkzebras in a kind way before eventually seeing her intentions.
So I ask, before you criticise, read both threads and know that whilst responding to racists on MN I'm also being told all lives matter on Facebook, instagram, Google, YouTube snapchat, everywhere. Imagine repeating yourself minute after minute.
Thank you for your post

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 11:32

I use to live in Manchester. To get rid of one crime ridden area with gangs the council flattened all the tower blocks, rehomed everyone around the region and build low rise housing in it's place. The clubs and bars refused to have certain nights and play certain music until this happened as they were told they would lose their licence.

I know the answer but can I ask, did they just flatten the tower blocks of white people or black people too?

OP posts:
Dreep · 06/06/2020 11:32

If that is directed at me, why does my view not count?

I really don’t think some of the posts have encouraged people to listen.

Sometimes there are better ways of expressing your views.

I won’t leave any thread for I am entitled to have an opinion. Unless of course you want me to stay oppressed and silent. Which isn’t really in keeping with my life mattering is it?

MadgeMak · 06/06/2020 11:32

Because the OP, as with the other thread part 1, has invited white people to answer her claim that white people have not experienced racism. The OP is specifically asking white people a question

It wasn't question, it was a statement of fact.

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 11:33

Because the OP, as with the other thread part 1, has invited white people to answer her claim that white people have not experienced racism.
No I didn't.
I said AIBU to tirelessly repeat myself or should I leave them to their ignorance? Looks like the latter is true.

The OP is specifically asking white people a question
No I'm not. I don't care for white answers rn

OP posts:
Dreep · 06/06/2020 11:33

And I think some people have been rude because they were met with rudeness.

PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 11:35

You cannot experience being part of an oppressed group unless you are a member of that group.

!!!!!!!!!!

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 11:37

become the token black friend

I remember starting a thread on the racism by Liam Neeson towards black people (obviously
One reply? "Well you're wrong OP because John Barnes said this"
White people constantly find an opinion or a behavior of a black person and use it as the voice of every black person.

OP posts:
PatricksRum · 06/06/2020 11:38

Actually I think that would be West Yorkshire.
So why are you claiming that the north doesn't experience gangs the same as the south? Baffled

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/06/2020 11:38

[quote MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive]@PatricksRum I would take heart from people being so (wilfully?) obtuse here and arguing with you - ironically they are proving your very point!

I really seriously wonder what the motivation is of those (especially you @Hearhoovesthinkzebras) who are so persistent in arguing, badgering, questioning and denying the OP's experience. I'm actually a little embarrassed for you as you are making yourself look so ignorant (as in ill informed).

On that note, again, do you realise how you sound?

"Educate me - tell me how not to be a racist" do you need telling?
"You have to teach me so I know" I don't know how not to be a racist myself
"But you don't want people to be racist so it's your responsibility to tell me, explain and teach people how not to be racist" if you need teaching how not to be a racist how the fuck can you not realise YOU are the problem!

You're not exactly making yourself look good here. Aren't you a bit ashamed to be like this and hectoring the OP so much when the whole point is she wants to say something important and it's not about you.

I actually started reading this thread (I didn't see the first one) thinking ooh OP is a bit rude, it's a bit goady and not in the spirit of MN. But then I woke the fuck up Grin the spirit of MN is to be kind and make people's lives easier isn't it?. People aren't being kind to OP in RL and making her life easier, quite the opposite and I don't see why she has to be kind herself in pointing this out especially when people seem to be so keen to argue with her and deny her own lived experience. (I also think this is a feminist issue especially with women expected to be kind and they're always bossy where a man is assertive). But I don't want to derail the thread further Wink

Seriously why can't people just shut the fuck up and listen instead of declaring proudly they don't know anything about something and want to be spoon fed and demand OP tailors her thread to them as they are so important. Oh the irony. Just shut up and listen then!

So like I said, you are nicely proving the very point OP is trying to make. Well done.

[/quote]
I'm not asking anyone to educate my how not to be racist, because I'm not racist.

I have said repeatedly that I will always, and have always, challenged racism whenever I've witnessed it.

I've got into trouble at work for calling out customers who seem to think it's ok to make racist comments to me and assume that because I'm white I will agree with them .

I've intervened when I've seen comments being made to strangers.

I've called people out when they've made racist jokes.

I campaign for social change, for an end to poverty, I've volunteered in schools and pushed for increased opportunities and programmes to encourage students from BAME to have aspirations.

What I've been asking for on here is help in understanding why AME people are being excluded from the movement that is happening now. I don't understand for example, why there are posters on here being told to shut up, to leave the thread, receiving abuse because they are not black, even though they aren't white. That's what I don't understand. Those communities will face racism, discrimination, abuse, poverty, attack. Why are they excluded from this?

The op keeps referring to black people being murdered by white people yet Asian people are subject to horrific attacks including houses being fire bombed and entire families wiped out.

That's what I'm struggling to understand. The area where I live is a very high Muslim population and I often hear women in Islamic dress abused.

I don't understand why this movement isn't including them.

But apparently that makes me a racist.

Op keeps asking me if I support BLM, and my answer is yes, absolutely. But am I only going to support BLM and not racism faced by the AME population - no.

So apparently me saying that I am against all forms of racism makes me racist.

This is what I don't understand.

Mittens030869 · 06/06/2020 11:38

White people cannot experience racism, just as straight people cannot experience homophobia and men cannot experience sexism. You cannot experience being part of an oppressed group unless you are a member of that group.

This sums it up. I don't really understand why people can't get their heads around this. Confused

Dreep · 06/06/2020 11:39

AIBU invites debate.

You're white you haven't experienced racism 2

your’e white. That addresses white people or at least invites them to say why they think their experience of something could be racism.

It started from the get go.

You don’t care for ‘white answers’? I do.

blueroses1 · 06/06/2020 11:39

I don't think white racism is a thing in predominantly white countries. However, there are some countries that see white women as trash who are fair game to sexually harass and assault. It's very unnerving to walk down the street and be called a white whore (and worse) even when you are completely covered up and dressed appropriately. Surely that is a form of racism? However, white men don't seem to suffer the same treatment.

meercat23 · 06/06/2020 11:39

PatricksRum Thankyou for this thread and the previous one. The responses you have received have shown me even more clearly than what you have said here what you mean and what black people face in all aspects of their lives.

MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive · 06/06/2020 11:40

"Because the OP, as with the other thread part 1, has invited white people to answer her claim that white people have not experienced racism"

Imagine being the sort of people to read the OP (opening post) and think that. "Invited white people". She's not inviting you, quite the opposite but yeah, you crack on...Hmm

(Oh I'm fucking rude myself these days Patrick but usually about sexism. I am past the point of being kind and catching flies with honey - I'm more at the point of wanting to smash windows and scream shut up. I won't say I know how you feel because of my experiences (I am white) but I think I'm getting closer to understanding more how you feel and this thread has helped me at least and probably a lot of people who aren't posting)