You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

And this Nigerian woman, if she still has such strong ties to her roots as it appears she does, can choose to go home any time too.

In the U.K. black people are more likely to be killed by another black person than a white person. Black on black crime and gang culture is a massive problem in London.

In the U.K. black people are more likely to be killed by another black person than a white person. Black on black crime and gang culture is a massive problem in London.
What's your point?

This thread brings me back to a to an old Brexit thread I was on. I spoke about feeling hurt at the result and feeling unwelcome in the country I have lived in and worked hard for for over 20 years. I was advised by a poster on how to “fit in” and to try and for example “cook more British food”. How this woman knew what I’m cooking (or not) in my own kitchen I have no idea.

Where do you live OP?

*The hypothetical white person in Nigeria is still not in the position of being oppressed. They might be irritated but there would not be the same power dynamic at play.

That's what a lot of this thread is about explaining.*

No I'm just tired of explaining this to you.

How is the op getting away with being so offensive to other posters who all have their own personal experiences on this subject?

Is there only one way to experience race?

My point was to the posts here claiming black people are in danger of being killed by white people. Not really in U.K. no. You are in danger of being pulled over by the police in your car, not being killed by them. Most black people are killed by black people in the Uk. Black on black violence massive problem.

Anyway, @StrawWaterBottle I guess for me it’s grating when I try to illustrate an example of a problem the black community in Britain is facing, there is an immediate challenge of a hypothetical white one. That’s what I meant in terms of relevance. We have seen it so many times on this thread. A black poster says “people are killing us” and an another poster goes “you are killing yourselves” or “what about the looting”. So I’m illustrating a real life example of white suppression of black culture and get a counter argument about a hypothetical made up scenario in a completely different context. And it’s frustrating because again.it.is,not.about you/us/white people in Nigeria. It’s about black people in the UK, their fights, their feelings, their reality.

And so I’m sure you are right and that your question is relevant in the land of logic. But to me, it remains unanswered because I see zero relevance In it. If you find that argumentative then that’s ok. I can live with that

@ BeardedMum for crying out loud!!! Are you kidding me? Are you an advocate of the N-word too as “they call themselves it”

And do you think that has nothing to do with racism and structural inequality in society? Poverty, lack of opportunities

Nah easier to believe racist stereotypes that black people are just inherently violent

I am sorry OP. I am white and have never experienced racism towards me. I am EXHAUSTED after only a short time of trying to make people understand their racism and reading some of the insane responses on this thread. I cannot imagine having had to have dealt with this my whole life and the complete lack of understanding of history and oppression.
Anger and power are rising in many forms around the world. I really really hope something changes.

My point was to the posts here claiming black people are in danger of being killed by white people. Not really in U.K. no. You are in danger of being pulled over by the police in your car, not being killed by them.
Are you black?

Most black people are killed by black people in the Uk. Black on black violence massive problem.
Why do you think this is?

I am sorry OP. I am white and have never experienced racism towards me. I am EXHAUSTED after only a short time of trying to make people understand their racism and reading some of the insane responses on this thread. I cannot imagine having had to have dealt with this my whole life and the complete lack of understanding of history and oppression.
Anger and power are rising in many forms around the world. I really really hope something changes.

Thank you
It is very exhausting. I'm wondering why pp are constantly asking why I'm responding in an angrily manner. It's the same posters coming back and back and back. They're hearing but not truly listening.
I hope our dc will make for a better future!

guess for me it’s grating when I try to illustrate an example of a problem the black community in Britain is facing, there is an immediate challenge of a hypothetical white one. That’s what I meant in terms of relevance. We have seen it so many times on this thread. A black poster says “people are killing us” and an another poster goes “you are killing yourselves” or “what about the looting”.

This.

Straw you have been on this thread so long. You're fully aware that this keeps happening.
Whataboutery again by you.
Just let us have our moment please.
We've had enough.

I think the point about the clothing and the reverse example is that

a) it would never actually happen. A white woman getting an award in Nigeria would not be asked to wear traditional dress. Nor would a white woman in India be asked to wear a sari.

b) If somehow she was asked she could say no without fear of the award being withdrawn or losing her job or other repercussions.

The reason it's different is because of the power imbalance. The white persons culture is dominant wherever they happen to live and they would not feel forced to conform.

If you are of Asian heritage do you feel free to wear traditional dress to an award ceremony? If you do will people comment 'how unusual' or judge you as having traditional values or can you wear whatever you like as a white person can?

@Lndnmummy

The thing is I'm not sure if it is white suppression of black culture or asking someone to dress in the traditional manner of the environment they are in and have chosen to be in, but then is that acceptable at all or should we allow anyone to dress in what they are comfortable in as long as it's not actually inappropriate/offensive (heels on a building site/slurs on t shirts ect)? That's where the comparisons came into it for me, looking at it from different perspectives to find a universal answer so that no one experiences prejudice, and that is why it's a complicated issue.

The BLM movement is absolutely about black people.

Your example and my questions about it are more nuanced however, as is general life.

The thing is I'm not sure if it is white suppression of black culture or asking someone to dress in the traditional manner of the environment they are in and have chosen to be in,

How can you even think this?
Especially given your background

"If you are of Asian heritage do you feel free to wear traditional dress to an award ceremony? If you do will people comment 'how unusual' or judge you as having traditional values or can you wear whatever you like as a white person can?"

I don't actually know as I don't like wearing traditional dress, for me it is too difficult to wear, skirts, lots of fabric, no pockets, things get caught ect.

"a) it would never actually happen. A white woman getting an award in Nigeria would not be asked to wear traditional dress. Nor would a white woman in India be asked to wear a sari."

You don't know this, and they may well be. As an Indian woman when visiting India I have been told to wear a sari rather than my own clothes so that I would fit in, is that any better?

@PatricksRum

I can think that because I can look at things from different perspectives. When visiting the Middle East I have been told to dress to respect their culture and this is widely expected of anyone who visits or moves there, no Mather what culture they come from. Now is this right, or should we all, regardless of race, be allowed to express ourselves and our culture wherever we are?

My background makes me think this especially because I don't agree with everything that we do traditionally, and therefore I critically evaluate all traditions I come across.

My point was to the posts here claiming black people are in danger of being killed by white people. Not really in U.K. no. You are in danger of being pulled over by the police in your car, not being killed by them.
Are you black?

Most black people are killed by black people in the Uk. Black on black violence massive problem.
Why do you think this is?
@BeardedMum

I have worked for a few months in Nigeria and Kenya and all office workers were dressed just like in the U.K. from what I saw.

Why do you think this is?

I think arguments about black on black violence are like arguments about the underclass vs the deserving poor.

It's easy to see that George Floyd did not deserve the violence that was meted out to him for a possible minor transgression of submitting a counterfeit bill or Eric Garner choked to death for selling cigs. People can get behind entirely innocent people

When the person concerned has committed a crime or there's a higher chance they did eg Mark Duggan, Azelle Rodney you start to see people saying they 'deserved it'

Like people talking about benefit cheats and slackers but saying benefits are OK for 'people in real need'. Failing to see that policies going back to the 1980s penalised and failed some working class communities and encouraged sickness benefit to bring unemployment numbers down. The people can be seen as being to blame' but only if you ignore the system that conspires against them succeeding.

Prostitution- is it a moral 'choice' or
are women involved in it left with few options having been abused, failed by education and social care and trapped in poverty.

We can't separate out the 'good' deserving black people and only be sad and angry about their deaths. They died because of racist assumptions that black people are dangerous and criminal
Racism causing poverty and limited opportunities is a cause of people turning to crime and of violence.