You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

You will never improve opportunities for the black community if you take no responsibility for lack of progress.

Wow.

Are you really asking the people who are massively disadvantaged by structures designed to work against them - who have been put in a position where they have no power to dismantle these structures - to do more to dismantle them? So it's their fault they're hitting a glass ceiling? And if they can't get through it, it's because they're not banging their heads against it hard enough? Really?

I'm white. I support BLM. I'm reading to educate myself. I hear you, OP, and I'm listening.

@PatricksRum I have huge problem with black history MONTH and how it’s applied. Particularly in educational settings.
I was shocked to know our primary school used BHM to talk about slavery. To think (and teach) that slavery constitutes black history month. I’m appalled that they introduced slavery as part of bhm. Slavery is not part of black history. It is an appalling awful horrific piece of European history- colonialism and the slave trade-which completely undermines what bhm should be about.

@PatricksRum you said “whataboutery”. That expression alone sums up a lot of my thoughts.
Now is the time to wrap your hearts and arms around the black community and show them solidarity, unity, and unconditional support.
The ONLY way to respond is by OUTRAGE, by outcry and unwavering support in unity.

The whatabotery in this context, however well meaning is utterly misplaced. It does not matter.
The ONLY thing that matters is Black lives.

You will never improve opportunities for the black community if you take no responsibility for lack of progress.

Wow, wow wow.

I'm going to break this down.

The reason the black community have fewer opportunities is because 400 years ago we were taken (not by choice) to other countries to work for free as slaves.

This means we were stripped of our dignity, families and livelihoods.

In turn it means when we became 'free', we did not have generations of education and wealth handed to us because slaves were denied education.

You cannot just set people free and expect them to be at the same starting point as everyone else.

So, therefore once again the problem here is RACISM.

I really didn't want to make it this deep but some of you are beyond words in your ability to get this.

There are lots of ways to solve the problem too - but as no one cares and sees it as a 'black problem' when in actual fact the problem was created by white people (whether you want to believe it or not).

Therefore a lot of white people are decision makers in helping fix the problem (as they make up the majority of top positions where changes could be made).

Because they don't care as it doesn't affect them personally you get a revolving cycle that's going to carry on unless white people start to understand these basic principles.

You know I'm just reading through the last thread. So many white people calling out so-called racism.
One comment from @Overduesleep reads My dm once went into an afro hair salon to enquire about a hair cut. The woman said we don't do that kind of hair and kissed her teeth. White people do experience racism
I cannot believe that you could even compare it in any sense.

One thing that jumps out to me is all these white people recalling their events of non-racism.
Do you know what I realised? I'm not even able to do that. I've experienced racism that many times that I've accepted it as my life, I haven't even hotter down a single event in my memory. It's all blurred into one.

THE FACT YOU CAN REMEMBER THE ONE TIME YOU FACED RACIAL PREJUDICE SHOWS HOW PRIVILEGED YOU ARE.

Do you know what I realised? I'm not even able to do that. I've experienced racism that many times that I've accepted it as my life, I haven't even hotter down a single event in my memory. It's all blurred into onto one

This is also very true. I can think of so many now but not all because they're all blurry there's too many to remember.

I think a lot of black kids join gangs and life of crime because of lack of opportunities from very early on in life

But there are much more deprived areas in England outside London. Londoners get more funding, they have higher employment rates, access to more community schemes. London didn't go through the drastic de-industrialisation that the north of England went through, mass unemployment with the closure of so much industry. Some of the most deprived regions in Europe are in the post industrial areas of England .

There are gangs in the north of England yes, but these are related to rape, trafficking for forced prostitution and the heroin trade and it's the victims who are the deprived. The north of England gangs are wealthy criminals and some of those gang members work for the local authorities and even the police. Protected by local corruption. The gangs in the north are obviously the oppressors, not the oppressed.

But why don't we see the kind of gangs we see in London, the high rates of stabbings and shootings, in the more deprived north of England, where there are less opportunities than in London

@Flaxmeadow Are you aware of the percentages of black people in London vs somewhere in the north?

We are underprivileged. We lack the same opportunities because we are black and only that.

You are twice as likely to be accepted into Oxford University if you are white vs black regardless of if you are from north England or south England. This has nothing to do with the north/ south divide. It has nothing to do with your experience of gangs in the north. This is about black people and black lives being taken away by white people.

The ONLY way to respond is by OUTRAGE, by outcry and unwavering support in unity.

YES!

This is what I've been trying to put across for days now.

You don't have to agree with my post but just shut up and listen. It's my time. It's my time to talk

@KitMarlowesCodpieceOfThigh Thank you for listening.

With respect. It isn’t just your time.

It is our time.

Telling people to shut up isn’t pleasant either. Some on here are doing their best to understand by asking questions.

All this talk about educating yourself - fine. But when people are trying to learn and are getting shouted down because they ‘don’t matter’, ‘they can never understand’, ‘they can never know‘ then we can tell them of our experiences and hope they can relate. Not know but relate.

Silence or telling people to be silent isn’t helping.

And I note my question is still unanswered.

@Overduesleep my white DP when into 5 hair salons in January of this year with my DD. Every single one stared at them then said they don't cut her type of hair without looking at her head. My DD is mixed ethnicity and doesn't have afro hair.

For every stupid comment you make claiming "white racism" I can pull out more showing how privileged you are for being white.

Are you aware of the percentages of black people in London vs somewhere in the north?

Yes I am. Most black people in England do not live in London. Most deprived people in England, both black and white, do not live in London. The vast majority of people who are deprived are white

We are underprivileged. We lack the same opportunities because we are black and only that.

So why do we not see the same amounts of deaths of black people, stabbings for example by gangs, in the even more deprived areas outside London.
Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester, Bradford, Leicester etc all have high black/BAME populations, but we do not see the same type of crime, or nowhere near as much. These places are more deprived than London, for everyone

You are twice as likely to be accepted into Oxford University if you are white vs black regardless of if you are from north England or south England.

I would think this is more related to the class divide. What is the proportion of white working class people admitted to Oxford and Cambridge in comparison

This has nothing to do with the north/ south divide. It has nothing to do with your experience of gangs in the north. This is about black people and black lives being taken away by white people

We do have black people in the north of England!!. Why do we not see the same amount of black gang crimes in areas outside London, in areas that are more deprived than London

How many black peoples lives are taken away by white people in England annually compared to those taken by black people ?

So why do we not see the same amounts of deaths of black people, stabbings for example by gangs, in the even more deprived areas outside London.
Because there is a history and present oppression and racism against black people not white people.

would think this is more related to the class divide. What is the proportion of white working class people admitted to Oxford and Cambridge in comparison
It isn't. It's because white people are privileged.

How many black peoples lives are taken away by white people in England annually compared to those taken by black people ?
A) it doesn't matter right now. Irrelevant.
B) it isn't racially motivated

...and Leeds, I forgot Leeds

I think BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup is talking about her DP taking their DD to a hair salon that cuts non Afro hair, and they ignored the fact that she doesn't have Afro hair and said that they couldn't cut her hair assuming she did have Afro hair.

@SilkandSandwiches
Oh I'm getting so confused. I thought it was overduesleep. I'm overdue sleep.
Apologies @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup I got you mixed up. Will ask MNHQ to remove.

Because there is a history and present oppression and racism against black people not white people.

There is a history of oppression of white people.

Also white girls in places like Rotherham and Rochdale etc have recently been, and still are being, racially oppressed by gangs.
Are the victims families forming gangs?

It isn't. It's because white people are privileged.

No they are not. The vast majority of under privileged people in England are white

"How many black peoples lives are taken away by white people in England annually compared to those taken by black people ?"
A) it doesn't matter right now. Irrelevant.
B) it isn't racially motivated

It matters because you keep bringing it up. You keep claiming that white people are killing black people. Provide the statistics.

I answered a post that claimed black kids join gangs because they are not given opportunities, so why are we not seeing these type of gangs, black or white, and high rates of stabbings, in more deprived places, with less opportunities, outside London?

@PatricksRum I'm black. My DD is mixed. I was giving the poster who complained about "white racism" one of my latest stories about hair salons/barbers in my family.

@PatricksRum I would take heart from people being so (wilfully?) obtuse here and arguing with you - ironically they are proving your very point!

I really seriously wonder what the motivation is of those (especially you @Hearhoovesthinkzebras) who are so persistent in arguing, badgering, questioning and denying the OP's experience. I'm actually a little embarrassed for you as you are making yourself look so ignorant (as in ill informed).

On that note, again, do you realise how you sound?

"Educate me - tell me how not to be a racist" do you need telling?
"You have to teach me so I know" I don't know how not to be a racist myself
"But you don't want people to be racist so it's your responsibility to tell me, explain and teach people how not to be racist" if you need teaching how not to be a racist how the fuck can you not realise YOU are the problem!

You're not exactly making yourself look good here. Aren't you a bit ashamed to be like this and hectoring the OP so much when the whole point is she wants to say something important and it's not about you.

I actually started reading this thread (I didn't see the first one) thinking ooh OP is a bit rude, it's a bit goady and not in the spirit of MN. But then I woke the fuck up the spirit of MN is to be kind and make people's lives easier isn't it?. People aren't being kind to OP in RL and making her life easier, quite the opposite and I don't see why she has to be kind herself in pointing this out especially when people seem to be so keen to argue with her and deny her own lived experience. (I also think this is a feminist issue especially with women expected to be kind and they're always bossy where a man is assertive). But I don't want to derail the thread further

Seriously why can't people just shut the fuck up and listen instead of declaring proudly they don't know anything about something and want to be spoon fed and demand OP tailors her thread to them as they are so important. Oh the irony. Just shut up and listen then!

So like I said, you are nicely proving the very point OP is trying to make. Well done.

And you @Flaxmeadow. OP says

"Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem"

And your reply...

"There is a history of oppression of white people"

It would be funny if it wasn't so shit and saddening. Do people not hear themselves?!

@Flaxmeadow I use to live in Manchester. To get rid of one crime ridden area with gangs the council flattened all the tower blocks, rehomed everyone around the region and build low rise housing in it's place. The clubs and bars refused to have certain nights and play certain music until this happened as they were told they would lose their licence.

Seriously why can't people just shut the fuck up and listen

Because the OP, as with the other thread part 1, has invited white people to answer her claim that white people have not experienced racism. The OP is specifically asking white people a question

Flax meadow you are just wrong on the facts here.

The North West had the highest homicide rate in the UK last year not London.

When you say 'why do we not see stabbings in deprived Northern cities?' Well we do. Of course there are drug gangs and killings in Manchester, Leeds and Bradford.

There was a recent documentary on the BBC about the police shooting of an Asian man in Bradford and the drug industry behind that.

It really looks like you are saying that there are only drug gangs and stabbings in London because more black people live there.

That is an overtly wrong and racist thing to say. Please clarify that you are not saying that or retract your statement.