You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

I can’t get over how utterly shit it is, that a black woman comes here on Mumsnet and shares her thoughts and views on what is going on in the world. And people tell her that SHE is wrong!! This week of all weeks!! Come on, really? Have you been smoking something? Can you not just hear, listen and accept? Can you really not see that this is part of the problem? The gaslighting is really ugly to witness.

Right?!
Imagine a grieving mother telling her story and all these people jumping in to say you're wrong.
Just listen. That's all I ask.

This is another thing to do.
Listen listen listen until you understand (my) words and why.

What??

Do you mean to be so egotistical?

Why do I have to listen to (your) words?

There have been plenty of other posters on this thread and others who have explained and discussed and got points across well. I'd rather listen to them thank you. You don't have the monopoly on this subject.

@Nonotthatdr you can donate to bond charities to help innocent people make bail. I did so today.

You can look at what charities work and support black children in your local area.

You can, every day challenge yourself and others about prejudice. Stand up for people that can’t always stand up for them selves. Challenge the gossipy mums at the school gate who don’t invite black children to their parties or judge the “rowdy black boy” in the class. Not joining in and staying silent isn’t enough. CHALLENGE, confront and speak up. Every time.
Not just with others, but ourselves too.
Silent is siding with the oppressor, now is the time to speak.

@PatricksRum I’m here, I’m listening ❤️

Mumsnet is. But our fight isn't about your experience of racial prejudices. Our fight is about us. This is our time. Feel free to start your own thread about being called 'white trash' or whatever your grievances are.

I'm confused.

You have started a thread ( 2 parts now) specifically addressing white people. Asking them if you are being unreasonable for saying they have not experienced racism

You have asked them a question. What is it you want? Total blind agreement or honest answers?

@Lndnmummy

As a white mother of two black sons part of this thread makes me want to weep. Why can’t you listen, open your hearts and heads to what is going on and stand united?! It.is.not.about.you The first time my child was accused of having “a chip on his shoulder” he was two. A toddler in nappies. I wrote a thread about it at the time. About 5 years ago now. His adhd traits are being ignored and we are instead asked if we have “boundaries” at home (we do). When I asked about a screening for dyslexia for him I was told the best thing to do was to “encourage dad to read with his son”. FYI, my husband who is a lawyer can read. The list goes on and on and on. He is 8 and already knows that if he is cheeky at school he gets harsher punishments than his peers. My husband when making minor mistakes at work gets pulled in to disciplinary meetings. For minor mistakes that you and I (if you are white) make every day. I know it’s uncomfortable and awkward but do you understand that people are being murdered? And when people are being executed by the very people that should protect them, the ONLY response is OUTRAGE. White people in power murder and kill black people, and you want to say “if and but”. NO!!

A chip on his shoulder at two? That's disgusting!

I wouldn't read anything into bring told to get dad to read with him more...I can see it is possible to infer "black dad so must not be able to read / inclined to read" but it would almost certainly (I would expect, and hope) be about ensuring there is a positive male role model showing reading is cool and enjoyable and worthwhile.

And if your son is getting harsher punishments than his classmates for God's sake kick up an almighty fuss to the teacher, head and governors because that is simply appalling

@Lndnmummy
Thank you
I can usually articulate really well but when you've tried a million times to explain using a million different methods you just lose it. I don't have the fight in me to explain each time every minute so I just say "No"
Or ignore, like I'm doing to posters whose name is on every single page

I wouldn't read anything into bring told to get dad to read with him more...I can see it is possible to infer "black dad so must not be able to read / inclined to read" but it would almost certainly (I would expect, and hope) be about ensuring there is a positive male role model showing reading is cool and enjoyable and worthwhile.

That's the thing though. The fact she even has to question the motive shows how inferior we are.
And the way you think it isn't due to skin tone shows how privileged you are.
If that makes sense?

@PatricksRum
Just saw the gangster hair comment. I’m speechless.
One of my friends at work (Nigerian) recently got promoted to head of department (city finance). She was asked to go to some event to pick up an award. My friend usually wears traditional Nigerian clothing. The day before the event she got pulled aside by the CEO and “asked” if she could get a dress from Hobbs and claim it back via expenses!
It’s shocking

A comment I read earlier:
in a capitalist society obsessed with materialism looting is one of the most powerful forms of protest

Bizarre and deeply ironic and I suspect another meaningless slogan from the USA. Fight the capitalists, smash the system by...erm... looting Rolex watches and designer footwear. No not materialistic at all these looters

@ Lancrelady80 so this is exactly what the problem is. I KNOW that I’m NOT “reading into it”.
I KNOW that a white traditional middle class set up would be met very differently. I KNOW this because I am, well, white middle class (with all the privileges that come with it.
I have kicked up endless fights and stinks with all sorts of people at nursery/ofsted/schools/head teachers/LA/ etc and I will keep doing it for as long as I shall live.
But it’s exhausting, it’s draining and it is heart breaking having to do it. It’s the same old saga every single time. It’s a broken record. It’s exhausting. I often find my friends side glancing and sighing when I talk about it. It’s a “here she goes again”. And so for THEM and other people with white children, most things can get sorted out with a quick chat to the Head or the Governors. For brown and black children, that’s simply not the case.

@Flaxmeadow you are not seriously joining the thread to talk about Rolex watchers and trainers are you? Please tell me you are not.

Flaxmeadow you are not seriously joining the thread to talk about Rolex watchers and trainers are you? Please tell me you are not.

Not specifically, no I'm not

@Lndnmummy

Just out of curiosity? If a white person worked in Nigeria and dressed in traditional western dress and was asked to dress in something traditionally Nigerian for an event would you be equally as outraged?

I'm genuinely curious because I'm not sure how I'd feel about it either.

The hypothetical white person in Nigeria is still not in the position of being oppressed. They might be irritated but there would not be the same power dynamic at play.

That's what a lot of this thread is about explaining.

But whether or not they are being oppressed would it be acceptable to expect them to change their traditional dress to fit into the society they are in?

@StrawWaterBottle dunno, can’t help but wonder what the relevance of that question is to be honest. To me it feels abit like someone saying “all lives matter” when someone is showing support for BLM. It is, in the context, totally irrelevant.
I realise that might seem argumentative and I’m not trying to be.
If you think about my friend, and her exposure in a white and male dominating environment. They want her there (jokes made about killing two birds with one stone ie female AND BLACK, the diversion and inclusion manager was very pleased with himself). Anyway, try to picture yourself in my friends shoes. She was excited and happy about her appointment. And it was a diversity award she was told to go and collect. (Optics, that looks good right. A black female face, shows progression etc). Problem is, they didn’t want the BLACK side of her or her culture. They didn’t want true diversity. They wanted her black face to fit in with their very white diversity agenda.
So I hope that goes some way to illustrate my point that the question about the reverse scenario just isn’t relevant?

you are not seriously joining the thread to talk about Rolex watchers and trainers are you? Please tell me you are not.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 honestly all I can do is flax along with deep appear every few pages with one sentence out of 1.6k posts to try to goad me into saying something.
Is it because they want attention? Yep.
Is it because I'm black? I think we both know the answer @Lndnmummy

My friend usually wears traditional Nigerian clothing. The day before the event she got pulled aside by the CEO and “asked” if she could get a dress from Hobbs and claim it back via expenses!
Fuck me.
Nigerian clothes are so much more beautiful. So much better quality.
I put dc in one the other day - she's 1! I wish you could see. So cute.
I'm sure someone will come along and claim it's inclusion

The relevance is upon seeing your comment it made me genuinely wonder and raised questions to me so I addressed you with those questions as you were the one who made the original comment.

It's nothing like saying 'all lives matter' and yes, you are being really quite argumentative. You brought it up, therefore anyone else referencing it is entirely relevant. You can't say things on a discussion board and not expect that you might get a reply.

Now you have given the wider context I agree that is appalling, they shouldn't be making jokes about filling their diversity quota or patting themselves on the back about it, they hired her because she is clearly excellent at her job and that's the only thing they should be pleased with, that they secured an excellent candidate for the role.

The question about the reverse scenario still remains relevant though, I don't know what the answer is but it's definitely one for debate.

*Just out of curiosity? If a white person worked in Nigeria and dressed in traditional western dress and was asked to dress in something traditionally Nigerian for an event would you be equally as outraged?

I'm genuinely curious because I'm not sure how I'd feel about it either.*

Yeah course you are(!)
You're not curious. You know the answer.

The white person chose to go to Nigeria. They can return home at any time.

@PatricksRum

Don't patronise me of assume anything about me, it is something I am genuinely curious about and don't know the answer too. I am not being inflammatory I asked a question of someone who made a comment, that's how discussion boards work.

And this Nigerian woman, if she still has such strong ties to her roots as it appears she does, can choose to go home any time too.

A black person who has emigrated to England and is very in touch with their heritage is quite different to the majority of black people in America who, because of the abhorrent slave trade, have no connection with their roots and identify as African American.

I am an Indian woman living in the U.K., my grandparents moved here when my mum was a teenager. Are you saying if I am uncomfortable, as I have the choice to return to my country of origin, I should do? Or should I stand up for myself as this is where my family have chosen to make our home?