You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

Imagine expressing views for hundreds of years and never being listened to

Ok. I will keep quiet then, except I'm being told to speak out.
Except I can only speak out if I say what you want me to say.

So, no thanks. I'm not going to be told what I can and can't say, no matter who is telling me.

There are two separate but valid queries about crime rates and the judicial system in the states at least.
The first is are more crimes committed by people in the black communities and if so why?
The second is are treated equally after a crime has been committed.
There is evidence in the USA that sentencing levels are not evenly applied and that much harsher sentences are given to people who are black.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/16/black-men-sentenced-to-more-time-for-committing-the-exact-same-crime-as-a-white-person-study-finds/%3foutputType=amp

*Imagine expressing views for hundreds of years and never being listened to

Ok. I will keep quiet then, except I'm being told to speak out.
Except I can only speak out if I say what you want me to say.

So, no thanks. I'm not going to be told what I can and can't say, no matter who is telling me.*

Where in there did I say don't speak?
Speak up against racism and stand for BLM. You're so focused on yourself

Don't ALL lives matter?

"When “Black Lives Matter” first became part of our lexicon, there was quite a bit of confusion around what, exactly, it meant. Some people heard the phrase “Black Lives Matter” and interpreted it as “Black Lives Matter More Than Any Other Lives.” This would come with follow-up questions like, “But don’t Latinx lives matter? What about Asian lives? How about Catholic lives?” While those are valid questions, they are not what’s being discussed when people say “Black Lives Matter.”

Here’s some background from German Lopez at Vox:

But the point of Black Lives Matter isn’t to suggest that black lives should be or are more important than all other lives. Instead, it’s simply pointing out that black people’s lives are relatively undervalued in the US — and more likely to be ended by police — and the country needs to recognize that inequity to bring an end to it.

Along the same lines, as President Barack Obama explained in 2015, all lives do matter, but in this particular context (using “All Lives Matter” as a response to “Black Lives Matter”), that’s missing the point:

I think everybody understands all lives matter. I think the reason that the organizers used the phrase ‘Black Lives Matter’ was not because they were suggesting nobody else’s lives matter. Rather, what they were suggesting was there is a specific problem that’s happening in the African-American community that’s not happening in other communities. And that is a legitimate issue that we’ve got to address."

• An article by Elizabeth Yuko

What was the for OP?

Surely not because two people discussed illness for a brief post or two?

There is also evidence that black people are not treated equally during the arrest process other things being equal in the USA

www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/06/04/another-excuse-police-bias-bites-dust/%3foutputType=amp

But I still think that the criminal justice system while it needs reform is just the end stage of a broken society and a lot needs to change much earlier.

What we need to look at is compared to their population size, why a larger percentage of black men commit crimes compared to the percentage of white men in a population.

Sorry, that is what I meant. I didn't mean in total more black men commit more crimes.

What I was getting at was you would expect people who commit crimes to be arrested. The reason why they committed the crime shouldn't affect whether they are arrested or not, so if a larger percentage of black men, in comparison to population size, commit crime than it's right that they should be arrested.

What I think we as a society must do, is to examine what is happening to lead them to commit crime and what can be done to address those issues. I can't see much changing if we just focus on the people arrested or the number of people dying in custody. That's not to diminish those deaths, even one is one too many but how much of an impact will it have on black people in the UK and their life experience?

But, these are only my gut feelings. Clearly it's for the leaders and representatives of black communities to say what they want and need and for us as a country to make sure it happens.

Op however keeps saying that it's not up to black people to tell us how to fix this though so I'm clearly barking up the wrong tree with believing that engaging with the black community is the way to go.

I think that black people have every right to be angry, frustrated, upset, hurt etc etc about racism and if a poster who is black is angry, then I think others need to see that there is a very good reason for that.

I think that there can be, and is sometimes, racism towards other races, but it is not as systemic, widespread, constant as it is against black people.

I do think we should all be aware that racism against black people is more systemic than it is against other races.

ALL racism is disgusting and totally wrong and we all need to work on ridding the world of this evil.

All of us, I mean everyone in every country needs to work on changing this completely unacceptable and horrific way of behaving towards our fellow humans.

_
My own anecdotes about people judging your colour / race / nationality:

I am half British and half another nationality. The people of that other nationality are generally regarded as white, but sort of dark, sort of Arab looking.

My name matches my other nationality and I have often been spoken to meanly e.g. "is that a stage name or what?" or "how come that's your name?" "you don't match your name" "I was expecting you to speak with a different accent" etc. This isn't always said by someone wanting to hurt me, but it really does. The stage name one was said disdainfully.

Generally, people see me as white / southern European / Jewish / so apart from numerous comments about my name, I have almost no experience of prejudice.

Only one time I do remember. I went on the tram for the first time, but it stopped half way along the route. I got off the tram at a station in south London where I'd never been before. The man answering people's questions was a black London Transport worker. I went up to him to ask about the next train, and he ignored me. He answered all the black people's questions in a friendly way. Once nobody else was there, he answered me but looked away while he spoke and with a really unfriendly manner.

I was hurt, and sort of stunned. I thought about it during the rest of the journey and concluded that that area must be much more racist than where I live, and years of racism towards him by white people made him not want to communicate with white people any more.

It also taught me a lot about how it feels to be treated in a racist way. IT IS HORRIBLE.

For me, that was one isolated event. Can you imagine that day in day out? In more important situations like job applications etc? SOUL DESTROYING.

So, I fully support black people and really, really want the world to stop the racism.

Patricksrum solidarity from a white woman.** 💪🏾

hear I get you now, and yes engaging with the black community leaders is a way of getting answers. In Afghanistan we engaged with village elders to seek answers resolve and information. I personally don't see why black leaders in our community would turn anyone away who wanted to learn and understand, if anything I bet they would be happy to explore this issue with you, so perhaps it's just OP.

Please don't walk away from the debate, or the chance to learn because of others. You've even said yourself, you've learnt so much this afternoon!

I'm a firm believer in the more questions asked, the more answers that can be found

But I still think that the criminal justice system while it needs reform is just the end stage of a broken society and a lot needs to change much earlier.

We've told you how. You're choosing to ignore it.

Black privilege is being able to freely protest (and loot) during a fucking world pandemic putting even more lives at risk from a deadly virus but guess what the world can’t say shit about it because if you do you’re racist!

Unbelievable. You keep coming back with the most ignorant posts I've ever read on MN

would turn anyone away who wanted to learn and understand, if anything I bet they would be happy to explore this issue with you, so perhaps it's just OP.

I told pp. I told her again. Then again. And again. Then I told her to educate herself as I'm tired of repeating it.
I don't know how you have the audacity to say I haven't tried to teach this poster.

@chilling19 Thank you. Hugs

You keep coming back with the most ignorant posts I've ever read on MN

I keep coming back with them because I’m reading your ignorant thread replies. The title of the thread alone is pure ignorance!

So, I fully support black people and really, really want the world to stop the racism.

Thank you.

No @peppapots
I hope MN ban you. You are dangerous in your thoughts.

@peppapots you have one mouth, 2 ears and 2 eyes. Use them.

OP with all due respect you have barked orders at her, you haven't even attempted to educate or help her understanding.

You keep saying you are tired of it, keep telling people it's not your job to educate them. Well that's fine, you've made that point quite clear over and over again.

PP didn't want a trip down Google lane she wanted a discussion. It's not so much you didn't want to teach her, you were teaching here incorrectly by telling her to go elsewhere for guidance when she was asking for it here and now. Some of us just took the time to calmly discuss it, because we felt it was worth the effort and we weren't tired of open and honest discussion surrounding the BLM movement.

I get that you are angry OP, I can sense it, but don't turn those away who simply want to learn by telling them "educate themselves" they are trying.

@peppapots

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Peppapots. Being black can get you killed. Being called racist just hurts your feelings.

If you can’t understand the difference you have serious issues.

The thought police are here and they are pissed. Bad think = thoughtcrime.

I'm a firm believer in the more questions asked, the more answers that can be found

Thank you. And I completely agree and had hoped that this site would be a place where conversations could be had.

I think you only have to look at the number of times posters have told us that it's not up to them to answer questions, or to educate, or to provide answers and that we have no right to ask questions to see how very many potential allies are likely to follow that instruction and leave the discussion.

That's not about fragility or my hurty feelingz. I think many decent people are afraid to make the situation worse or to cause offence and so they say nothing, not because they don't want to get involved or are racist or any other number of insults but because they don't know what to do so step away.

OP with all due respect you have barked orders at her, you haven't even attempted to educate or help her understanding.
I haven't barked orders.
I've attempted so many times. Read the whole thread. It wasn't just me.
Books were shown. Videos. Netflix films. Documentaries. Blogs. YouTube videos. Everything. I have tried. We have tried.*

You keep saying you are tired of it, keep telling people it's not your job to educate them. Well that's fine, you've made that point quite clear over and over again.*
Great.*

PP didn't want a trip down Google lane she wanted a discussion.*
Black lives don't need to be discussed in the way she is attempting. She needs to listen more rather than discus.

It's not so much you didn't want to teach her, you were teaching here incorrectly by telling her to go elsewhere for guidance when she was asking for it here and now.
She's a grown woman. Take responsibility.

Some of us just took the time to calmly discuss it, because we felt it was worth the effort and we weren't tired of open and honest discussion surrounding the BLM movement.
I did this too and then she went on and on and on and on.*

I get that you are angry OP, I can sense it, but don't turn those away who simply want to learn by telling them "educate themselves" they are trying.*
I never turned her away. I provided places for her to learn. She doesn't want to learn. You've explained why blsck lives are at the forefront. She still doesn't get it.

@hearhoves you do not have to join netflix. That was used as an example. HR does not just apply to work place..We hire people to do work around our houses. We look through phone books. I didn't think I needed to be very specific. People should be able to logically expand thier thinking and acknowledge other areas that are similar. I can not spoon feed people.