You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

That's what I'm asking - what does the black community and specifically BLM want?

It's not really for me to answer, but I might suggest than in the US, while the problem is more critical about black men being shot, in the UK it is more about a 'lower level' of police harassment.

Look at the stop and search statistics by ethnicity.

www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/stop-and-search/latest#by-ethnicity

Black people are 10 times more likely to stopped by the Police and searched.

So the BBC article says:

"The 2011 census - the most accurate source - showed that 3% of the English population were black (though this proportion may have grown since then). Black people accounted for 8% of deaths in custody."

and

"Of those arrested, 79% were white and 85% of those who died in custody were white.

Meanwhile, 9% of people arrested were black (which is disproportionally high) and 8% of those who died in custody were black.

So, over the last 10 years, a white individual who has been arrested was about 25% more likely to die in custody than a black individual who had been arrested."

Here's the stats on stop and search

That's what I'm asking - what does the black community and specifically BLM want?

Why don't you just google that and see for yourself honestly I can't decide if you're being deliberately obtuse or gaslighting or you just like to play dumb.

There is a whole Wikipedia page devoted to it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackLivess_Matter

BLM regularly holds protests speaking out against police killings of black people, and broader issues such as racial profiling, police brutality, and racial inequality in the United States criminal justice system.[1]

Can it be any clearer?

No we are not American and we do not have the US criminal justice system. But many aspects of the BLM campaign are relevant across the entire western world, including the UK.

I'm going to bow out now. I'm tired. I can only imagine how black people feel.

The history of incarceration for black males in the USA is very different to the UK.
It was used as a way of acquiring indentured labour after slavery was outlawed. The conditions were horrific and many states made a considerable amount of money from it.
This continues to certain extent today, NY got prisoners to make hand sanitizer during C19.
This is in addition to the more general systemic racism in the USA and the issue that there is often substantial funding for the police and very little funding for any social services/family support or education.

@AvranaKernsBestSpider

Horses, that’s what you take from my post? Splitting hairs about the causes of ww2 rather than acknowledging that the fight was also, for many, against the Nazi regime that so many opposed?

Firstly, my name isn't horses but I'm assuming you're talking to me?

Secondly, you said that WW2 was a coming together of people to fight for the end to Jewish oppression by the Nazis and presented it as a single cause issue similar to the current BLM. It wasn't. Nations went to war against Germany for many reasons, not least national interests. Britain declared war on Germany because Germany invaded Poland and Britain wanted to stop Germany from invading Europe.

Britain did not go into WW2 in order to protect Jewish people.

I think some of the confusion in this debate is while there are some parallels between the US and UK, the US is of an other order of magnitude.

Also @PatricksRum I wish you the all the best.

I don't think I've addressed you directly on the thread, but I'm another poster who is trying my hardest to listen and educate my own children on being actively anti-racist. I have barely felt a tenth of your frustration and it's more than enough for me.

Reposting this because it's important.

I'm going to bow out now. I'm tired. I can only imagine how black people feel.

I appreciate how tired you are. This poster is repeatedly asking the same questions that she requires to be spoon fed to her.
Thank you for trying.

themental

Because there seems to be no consensus and a lot of it seems to be US centric.

The UK is not the US so how is it helpful to campaign, in the UK, for things that don't happen here anyway?

@BlackKite

I think some of the confusion in this debate is while there are some parallels between the US and UK, the US is of an other order of magnitude.

Thank you

Also @PatricksRum* I wish you the all the best.

I don't think I've addressed you directly on the thread, but I'm another poster who is trying my hardest to listen and educate my own children on being actively anti-racist. I have barely felt a tenth of your frustration and it's more than enough for me.

Reposting this because it's important.*

Were you the poster who posted that on the other thread? I saw it and saved it immediately but couldn't respond directly as the thread was full.

Thank you so much. Honestly, as a said to pp listening and educating your children is the most important thing. They can change the future.

I appreciate you tirelessly responding to certain pp's and I feel your frustration too.

Thanks for listening. Take care.

Sorry @Hearhoovesthinkzebras my brain went from hooves to horses!

On that subject, is your username related to your disability? I won’t mention the name in case you don’t want to, but if so I understand the absolute frustration of people just not getting it. Doctors not believing it. People thinking “you’re making it up”. Having to explain in detail what you can and can’t do and why. Their hilarious reactions when bits of you dislocate.

Imagine having someone in your life who heard the name of your disability and said “I get it. I’ll do X for you because I know how painful it can be. I’ll bring you a Z because I know that helps with the pain.”

God how lovely that would be!

On that subject, is your username related to your disability? I won’t mention the name in case you don’t want to, but if so I understand the absolute frustration of people just not getting it. Doctors not believing it. People thinking “you’re making it up”. Having to explain in detail what you can and can’t do and why. Their hilarious reactions when bits of you dislocate.

Yes it is, absolutely. So nice to "meet" someone who knows about it. You sound like you have a very good understanding of it - do you have it too?

My take on it is that there are definite similarities, black men are more likely to be stopped if they are driving nice cars in both countries, they have a heightened risk of dying in custody, they experience more stop and search.
Some of the reasons for this are the same, racism, likelihood that a black man has lower socioeconomic status, assumptions that any individual black man does have lower socioeconomic status.

Other issues of different, the accepted levels of police violence, the historical context, the way police, education, healthcare and social support is funded.

There are federal/state issues that need to be considered in the USA in a way that isn't relevant in the UK. There is the continuous gun issue.

HearHooves I do indeed I was officially diagnosed last year after years of pain and other weird issues. I’m so glad I was right about your username otherwise I’d have looked like a right weirdo!

they have a heightened risk of dying in custody,

Where and heightened risk when compared to who? In the UK white men have a 25% greater risk of dying in custody. In the past ten years 140 white people died and 13 black people.

It's clearly not helpful to be treating the UK and the US as one. The challenges are very different in each country.

@AvranaKernsBestSpider

HearHooves I do indeed I was officially diagnosed last year after years of pain and other weird issues. I’m so glad I was right about your username otherwise I’d have looked like a right weirdo!

I'm really sorry to hear that. Took me just shy of forty years to get diagnosed - many operations as a child that are now taking their toll because, with hindsight, they shouldn't have been done and I've got multi system involvement - heart, gut, autonomic nervous system, brain stem - it's great fun isn't it? I wish you well. It's good to meet another zebra.

*Where and heightened risk when compared to who? In the UK white men have a 25% greater risk of dying in custody. In the past ten years 140 white people died and 13 black people.

It's clearly not helpful to be treating the UK and the US as one. The challenges are very different in each country.*

Educate yourself on the matter. Stop asking us to research for you.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/04/systemic-racism-police-brutality-british-problems-black-lives-matter

Ironically you have actually made this whole thread about white people with your title, so giving them attention and making it about them, rather than making it about what black people are going through.

If it's not about white people, don't focus a whole thread about them, this isn't about them so make the thread about black people's experiences not about whether white people haven't experienced this or that. They are not the focus, black people are, make it about them!

They are not the focus, black people are, make it about them!.
Really? I wasn't aware.

Sorry op, but that article contains next to no information at all that hasn't already been posted about.

It's clear that there's no consensus on what needs to happen. I will, as I've always done, stand up against racism that I witness.

It's clear that there's no consensus on what needs to happen.
There is.
Google it.

I will, as I've always done, stand up against racism that I witness.
Great. I hope you'll stand up with BLM

I'll stand against racism.