You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

Can we not be tolerant. What this means, is that you put up with the other person. This is how systemic racism is created. We see it, we ignore it and we put up with it. It then becomes the norm. Just being tolerant is not ethical and morally right. Being tolerant is not being racist to your face but making sure measures are place to tell you what we think of you. Being tolerant is having the stiff upper lip and not telling you how we truly feel but it comes out in our systems you created.

@themental

How do you take immediate corrective action if you've not worked out the causes?

That's the recognised way to problem solve.

Identify and agree on the problem (black people losing their lives)
Correction / Containment (i.e, police officers arrested, systems put in place to stop the problem right now - training and regulation with swift enforcement)
Root Cause Analysis (How did this happen? Why are racists allowed in the police force? Why were those police officers racist in the first place? Why? 5 Whys)
Corrective and Preventative action plan
Verification

You work on the causes after you have put the fire out and contained the problem in front of you. You'll find this same method in basically every manufacturing plant / organisation that are working to ISO standards. Not to mention every emergency service like Ambulance, Police, and Fire.

Identify problem
Correct / Contain the problem
Root Cause Analysis
Corrective and Preventative Action.
Verify effectiveness

You can't skip to stage three without doing the first steps. And I'm not sure we are actually ALL agreed on step one. Certainly not in the US, anyway.

Are you basing this on the US?

Isn't only two unarmed men killed by British police last year, and one of those was the terrorist in London?

I'm going to try and find stats for black people who have died in custody but honestly, is that the most pressing problem facing the black community?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras It isn't available on the app which I'm using.
I bold your text but sometimes when they post it doesn't work. Not much I can do.

If I may chip I slightly about Jewish oppression and the Nazi regime...

People of all colors, religions and backgrounds came together to defeat facism and end the Nazi regime. They saw the suffering the Jewish people were going through and took action to squash it out.

If non-Jewish people had, to the end, shrugged and said “I dunno, sort it out for yourselves it’s nothing to do with me.” (And god knows enough people did say that at first, sadly.) If the British and American government had looked on and said, “well, were not Jewish so we can’t really comment.” Can you imagine how horrific that would have been?

Unfortunately during the rise of facism, not enough non-Jewish people did speak up. Not enough people fought strongly enough about was facing up to be a horrific regime.
In the end, they did.

That’s what black people are saying. Be aware. Stand up to it. Speak out. Don’t pretend it’s nothing to do with you.

(And if you think the American government wouldn’t put people in concentration camps, go and research the Japanese internment camps set up in America after the Second World War. Ordinary Japanese citizens in internment camps in the “free world”.
And even more recently immigrant children in cages. That’s the mindset we need to be aware of.)

Well......you said white people haven't experienced oppression.

Sweeping statement.
^Kids are tiring
Kids are noisy
Teenagers are moody
Teenagers are lazy^

Which was the point I was making. Should we not be concentrating on removing systemic racism rather than from stopping white men killing black men, which is what I'm seeing being called for across SM?

They're the same thing.

So, I've just googled the statistics for deaths in custody

www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/52890363?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15913650111454&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2F52890363

Op, you place a * at the start and end of every paragraph you want to bold.

I'm going to try and find stats for black people who have died in custody but honestly, is that the most pressing problem facing the black community?

I posted this upthread

www.bbc.com/news/52890363#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%2010%20years,body%20responsible%20for%20police%20complaints.

*People of all colors, religions and backgrounds came together to defeat facism and end the Nazi regime. They saw the suffering the Jewish people were going through and took action to squash it out.

If non-Jewish people had, to the end, shrugged and said “I dunno, sort it out for yourselves it’s nothing to do with me.” (And god knows enough people did say that at first, sadly.) If the British and American government had looked on and said, “well, were not Jewish so we can’t really comment.” Can you imagine how horrific that would have been?*

Great post.
Anyone saying it isn't my duty as a privileged person to stand up for black lives or tell us how to end the problems we created or you're categorising us

@PatricksRum

Well......you said white people haven't experienced oppression.

Sweeping statement.
^Kids are tiring
Kids are noisy
Teenagers are moody
Teenagers are lazy^

It's a fairly important point, especially on this thread. You are being very critical and a quite picky about what words other posters are using. So why is it ok for you to make sweeping statements like that?

Op, you place a at the start and end of every paragraph you want to bold.*

I'm aware. You can see the asterisks in my posts.
There is an issue with the app whereby it doesn't allow me too see the top of what I'm posting.

AvranaKernsBestSpider

WW2 was not fought to stop the oppression of the Jews by the Nazis.

I'm going to try and find stats for black people who have died in custody but honestly, is that the most pressing problem facing the black community?

As a white person I'm not qualified to say what the most pressing problem facing the black community is.

If you are white, then in the nicest way possible, it's not your place either.

Black people are telling us, pretty clearly, what they see as the most pressing problem.

I think we should shut up and listen to them?

And clearly, our governments (in the west) need to work on the solutions.

I should have made that clear in my initial posts.

It's for us to stand with them.

@PatricksRum

*People of all colors, religions and backgrounds came together to defeat facism and end the Nazi regime. They saw the suffering the Jewish people were going through and took action to squash it out.

If non-Jewish people had, to the end, shrugged and said “I dunno, sort it out for yourselves it’s nothing to do with me.” (And god knows enough people did say that at first, sadly.) If the British and American government had looked on and said, “well, were not Jewish so we can’t really comment.” Can you imagine how horrific that would have been?*

Great post.
Anyone saying it isn't my duty as a privileged person to stand up for black lives or tell us how to end the problems we created or you're categorising us

No it's not a great post.

WW2 was not fought to defend Jewish people against the Nazis. The reasons for WW2 were multifactorial and included the impact of the Treaty of Versailles and economic factors.

It's a fairly important point, especially on this thread. You are being very critical and a quite picky about what words other posters are using. So why is it ok for you to make sweeping statements like that?
Which words am I being picky about?
It's a generalisation, a quick way to get the point across

@PatricksRum, can I ask where you're posting from? Is it the US?

[quote BlackKite]I'm going to try and find stats for black people who have died in custody but honestly, is that the most pressing problem facing the black community?

I posted this upthread

www.bbc.com/news/52890363#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%2010%20years,body%20responsible%20for%20police%20complaints.[/quote]
Yes, I looked at those figures. Quite clearly the UK is a different entity to the US if you go by those figures.

@PatricksRum

It's a fairly important point, especially on this thread. You are being very critical and a quite picky about what words other posters are using. So why is it ok for you to make sweeping statements like that? Which words am I being picky about? It's a generalisation, a quick way to get the point across

What point are you making by making the untrue statement white people haven't experienced oppression ?

@themental

I'm going to try and find stats for black people who have died in custody but honestly, is that the most pressing problem facing the black community?

As a white person I'm not qualified to say what the most pressing problem facing the black community is.

If you are white, then in the nicest way possible, it's not your place either.

Black people are telling us, pretty clearly, what they see as the most pressing problem.

I think we should shut up and listen to them?

Have you looked at the stats?

Take a look at the figures in that document.

White men are 25% more likely to die in custody than black men.

In the last ten years of the deaths in custody

140 were white
13 were black

Yes, I looked at those figures. Quite clearly the UK is a different entity to the US if you go by those figures.

Looking objectively, I do agree - the US seems to be of a different order of magnitude than the UK. I don't however doubt the insidious day to day racism that BAME communities face.

So, if I'm to use my voice to fight this how do I make a case with those figures?

I don't however doubt the insidious day to day racism that BAME communities face.

Me either, except we've been repeatedly told that this is not about BAME people, only black people and that the primary focus is on white people killing black people, and one poster said black.people killed by police.

That's what I'm asking - what does the black community and specifically BLM want?

Horses, that’s what you take from my post? Splitting hairs about the causes of ww2 rather than acknowledging that the fight was also, for many, against the Nazi regime that so many opposed?

*Me either, except we've been repeatedly told that this is not about BAME people, only black people and that the primary focus is on white people killing black people, and one poster said black.people killed by police.

That's what I'm asking - what does the black community and specifically BLM want?*

blacklivesmatter.com/