You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

But won't fighting against all racism fight against the racism that you are experiencing?

I totally understand raising awareness of the racism that black people are suffering. What I don't understand is how we tackle that specifically? From what I'm hearing politicians saying, and institutions like the police, and I heard American military bespeaking today they all seem to be saying they are committed to stamping out racism. Kier Starmer was talking about racism and BAME people. So, leaders appear to be talking about racism as it affects all BAME people, not just black people. Isn't that a good thing?

themental

You asked how can it get any worse - well, more people have died and black Americans have list their businesses. Their lives have just got a whole lot worse. Obviously I don't know about all but I saw quite a few business owners talking on line and they didn't have insurance. One man was elderly and he was breaking his heart begging them to stop because he'd built the business up from scratch and now he had nothing.

I don't understand your point about our economy - our government is trying to support businesses and absolute worst comes to the worst at least those who are affected have the welfare state and free healthcare. What will the Americans left homeless or out of work have? Hasn't that just made their lives so much worse?

I really understand protesting but why looting and destroying the businesses of the very people they purport to be demonstrating for?

Sorry packetandtripe. My comment below yours was meant for op, not you. We cross posted.

I'm very sorry that you've lost someone

I really understand protesting but why looting and destroying the businesses of the very people they purport to be demonstrating for?

I don't think they are specifically targeting "the very people they purport to be demonstrating for".

I don't have all the answers, I'm mostly just listening to my black friends, and to those more vocal than me, to be honest.

The majority of people I see calling out the rioting are white people.

Maybe the image posted below could have something to do with it.

And another one shared by another black friend...

Like I said I don't have the answers and I'll never understand.

But if I had to hazard a guess I'd say they were tired. And I think Trevor Noah hits the nail pretty spot on in his video.

I don't know. I get they aren't specifically targeting those businesses but when the owners are stood there begging them to leave it's pretty obvious who owns it isn't it?

Many people have been saying that the looters are coming from out of town just to rob basically, so the looting isn't part of the political process yet others are trying to ascribe some political meaning to it.

It's incredibly sad. So many more lives lost in what was meant to be s protest at the murder of one man. Will anyone know the names of all of the further people killed during this? I hope so. They're victims too.

I agree it's incredibly sad.

As things develop though, I think the protests are getting mixed up with counter protests, protests are getting mixed up with looting, police are using more and more brutality on those peacefully protesting - which in turn is causing retaliation by those who were peaceful.

Because of the sheer amount of US friends I have on FB I'm more following the news / twitter screenshots etc from that side of the Atlantic. And I really don't think it's as even as black and white as any of the answers I've managed to give in my replies.

Like I said, I can only really repeat what others who are experiencing it are articulating.

This one is an eyeopener.

And these "counter protests" are on top of the many photos and videos of police officers destroying water supplies, arresting black news reporters, flashing the KKK "ok" sign slyly at black protesters, pepper spraying black children in the street, throwing people who are literally just walking along the street to the ground, and shooting people (including reporters) in the face with rubber bullets.

I've only briefly watched C4 news a few times this week, but none of the above was mentioned. Hence why I don't think any of us on Mumsnet can really understand.

@themental

I agree it's incredibly sad.

As things develop though, I think the protests are getting mixed up with counter protests, protests are getting mixed up with looting, police are using more and more brutality on those peacefully protesting - which in turn is causing retaliation by those who were peaceful.

Because of the sheer amount of US friends I have on FB I'm more following the news / twitter screenshots etc from that side of the Atlantic. And I really don't think it's as even as black and white as any of the answers I've managed to give in my replies.

Like I said, I can only really repeat what others who are experiencing it are articulating.

This one is an eyeopener.

And these "counter protests" are on top of the many photos and videos of police officers destroying water supplies, arresting black news reporters, flashing the KKK "ok" sign slyly at black protesters, pepper spraying black children in the street, throwing people who are literally just walking along the street to the ground, and shooting people (including reporters) in the face with rubber bullets.

I've only briefly watched C4 news a few times this week, but none of the above was mentioned. Hence why I don't think any of us on Mumsnet can really understand.

But then you can also see footage of protesters attacking police, a house set on fire with a little girl inside and fire brigade held up, police getting shot, saw one earlier where a protester hurled a large metal object at someone, a looter got shot and you saw two police officers doing CPR surrounded by a mob of protesters.

I think all we are seeing are tiny snapshots from both sides. Very hard to draw any conclusions but the deaths and destruction are real aren't they? No one is disputing that. Obviously adding Trump into it is just pouring petrol on the flames - precious little hope of conciliation there.

With these continuous threads you are purposely trying to cause a divide

Black lives matter.

Obama said to young people 'Your lives matter, your dreams matter'

I still have a dream, a dream deeply rooted in the American dream – one day this nation will rise up and live up to its creed, "We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream ...

—Martin Luther King Jr. (1963)

Every time a black child loses their father to racism we are all diminished.

Patricks,

You want to remove all context from this thread. Doubtless, you will argue that there is no context and racism is absolute. I will respectfully disagree and say that comparisons bring meaning to events and allow people to put them into context.

As a Jewish person, I rather took offence when you asked another Jewish poster whether their ethnicity was Jewish or white. I don’t think the people defacing synagogues or scrawling ‘kike’ on the wall actually cares.

And Holocaust Memorial Day, which was originally about the Shoah, is increasingly talked about in the context of all holocausts and genocides. Is that right? It makes me feel queasy but maybe it us, if it makes it more relatable to non Jews.

What happened to the person you call ‘George’ as if you knew him personally, was horrific and, thankfully, has been pretty much universally condemned. Thankfully, no one is trying to justify the police action.

However a wail of anger against all whites everywhere is not a way of problem solving or gaining allies. If it is cathartic for you, go for it, but don’t expect it to achieve anything else.

BLM is about Black people, I get that and support it.

I am a Traveller though and won't accept the denial of the systematic racism my people have faced throughout our history and every day we live.

I don't understand why you'd start a thread with the title 'white people don't experience racism' and then act absolutely gobsmacked when most of the discussion is from white people sharing their experiences of racism.

If you're not interested in hearing that and wish to inform/discuss/talk about the BLM movement, make your thread about that.

It was fairly obvious from the title what the replies were going to be.

I have experienced racism, frequent and sustained, and I'm white. I'm from a community that suffered at the hands of the police for many. many years.

But that doesn't take away from BLM or the awful inequalities for black communities in the USA or the police brutality that they experience every day. My experiences have nothing to do with what's going on now and the protests. The two things don't have to be exclusive.
I understand why people are protesting, and fighting. back, and rioting and looting. It's disgraceful what the police have been able to get away with for years, murder after murder of POC without any come back on them.

And what you believe doesn't change the actual definition of racism, which allows for people of ALL races/skin colour to experience it.

I'm not one of the white people wondering why some protestors or rioters are 'destroying' their own ' communities' - I've know why, I've been there.

Here are some resources.

I am totally with you.

I agree with the OP that racism is systematic in the US especially, but also in the UK. I think the difficulty comes when it comes to identifying what we can do about it, and especially what the white majority can do about it.

Because racism is systematic, it is often difficult to see. I doubt that very few white people on MN spend much time either thinking about race, or actively discriminate against people of colour, and using racial epithets.

However, during the period of austerity, the reality was that the most cuts were made to the services that supported the least well off, negatively affecting people of colour (on average). We cut budgets to services like legal aid, that again, are more likely to support people of colour. If we have a discussion about private education, it will be a pretty popular opinion on here that wealthier (and on average, more likely to be white) should be able to spend money how we see fit so as to benefit our children. The upshot of this politics, which isn't obviously about race, is to disproportionately negatively affect people of colour, and to institute biases that support white people.

@Changednamesorry

Can you make that bigger?

There is really no excuse for 'not seeing or thinking about racism'... the facts and evidence have been horrifically obvious for so long. It really frustrates me, as a white person, that so many white people are acting like they have just learned something new.

Fine, if this is the wake up call you needed and are genuinely going to educate yourself now - better late than never. Good on you. But you need to understand that while you are coming to this as the beginning of your journey, black people are not at the beginning of their journey. They have been struggling with this their whole lives and the lives of generations before them. Stop asking them to be polite and empathetic about it. That's what you do the first time someone does something a bit, understandably wrong. Expecting centuries of atrocities to be met by nothing but calm, patient explaining and empathy is expecting what no human should have to do (despite the fact that many still manage).... Chiding people for being angry? Come on.

This article - written a long time ago - still captures the problem pretty well.

www.thedp.com/article/2002/01/postmodern_prejudice

Earlier this morning I posted how my very own mixed race family was turned away from a hotel, and this was rebutted by white travellers having their weddings cancelled once they found out they were travellers. I'm going to explain why white privelige still existed in that scenario.

White couple walk in to hotel, are checked in. They get to their room and some hours later a knock at the door, they are told, we have discovered you are travellers you must leave. They leave.

That is racial prejudice and it is wrong.

Black couple/Mixed race couple turn up to a hotel and are turned away instantly because of their race.

The white privelige allowed you to check in and get your arse in the bed, the racism ment the other couple did not even get that chance.