You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

Do me a favour. It's nearly 5am. I've done nothing but respond to your posts.
You haven't read them and taken them in, though.

You on the other hand have said nothing of interest.
You're entitled to your opinion.
*
What are your views on George Floyd? On the protests in America and the UK?*
I've answered already. Feel free to go back and read my posts.
*
Respond to the constructive posts asking about areas that can actually improve the situation in America rather than your silly playground insults.*
I've answered already. Feel free to go back and read my posts.

@PatricksRum

You are getting into such semantics over the differences between racism and racial prejudice. By definition (dictionary) they are the same thing.

You may think that racism is to do with power but the definition of it says otherwise. Racial oppression is what is to do with power. Systematic racism is to do with power and entrenched prejudices.

Racism is about judging/attacking/belittling or assigning characteristics to people based on the colour of their skin, whatever that colour is.

@bettybeans Feel free to ask me on a thread about feminism.

@PatricksRum

Out of interest do you think Asian people can experience racism from black people or vice versa? By your definition who holds 'the power' there?

Yes racism against all BAME people is important to me. It's abhorrent and I will stand against it.
Good.

Why do you think that makes me complicit? Complicit in what?
I've answered already.

Are you a Londoner OP, or should I ask that on a thread about geography ?

It seems to me op that you are racist against all other races.

Why would you not want racism against anyone to end?

You're telling white people to use their privilege to do what? To only stand up for black people? So if I witness an Indian man being racially abused would you expect me to ignore it because he isn't black?

You are getting into such semantics over the differences between racism and racial prejudice. By definition (dictionary) they are the same thing.
Because you, amongst others, keep bringing it up.*

You may think that racism is to do with power but the definition of it says otherwise. Racial oppression is what is to do with power. Systematic racism is to do with power and entrenched prejudices.*
No it doesn't. As stated before racism cannot be defined by a few words neither can misogyny.*

Racism is about judging/attacking/belittling or assigning characteristics to people based on the colour of their skin, whatever that colour is.*
Involving the idea of superiority and domination.

Why do you think that makes me complicit? Complicit in what

I've answered already.

No you haven't. You just said that I was complicit, not why you think I am.

*It seems to me op that you are racist against all other races.

Why would you not want racism against anyone to end?*
Because they're racist.
*
You're telling white people to use their privilege to do what? To only stand up for black people? So if I witness an Indian man being racially abused would you expect me to ignore it because he isn't black?*
I'm not listing all the ways to use your privilege. I'm listing the ways to use your privilege to aid the thread topic.

This reminds me of the O.J. Simpson trial.

@OP

Do you think Asian people can experience racism from black people or vice versa? By your definition who holds 'the power' there?

It seems to me op that you are racist against all other races.

Why would you not want racism against anyone to end?

How have you answered the above question with

Because they're racist.

I asked you why you wouldn't want racism against anyone to end and your reply is because they're racist. What, everyone is racist?

I'm not listing all the ways to use your privilege. I'm listing the ways to use your privilege to aid the thread topic

I'm not asking you to list ways I should use my white privilege. I'm asking what your insistence on limiting racism to only black people means in practice. Does it mean that white people should ignore racism against say Asian people? Because if it doesn't, then we are fighting to end all racism. If it does mean that you want us to ignore racism against everyone who isn't black - well, that's discrimination as well as being immoral in my book, so if that's what you're asking for then no I'm not being a part of that.

I will absolutely stand against all racism.

@BovaryX you clearly have a huge problem with the looters.

I understand. It's almost a knee-jerk reaction. We're brought up in a society that worships capitalism, so of course seeing people destroy the "pillars" of capitalism may seem shocking.

Please, if you have facebook, watch Trevor Noah's video on this. He hosts a program in the US called The Daily Show but with Covid, it's in his living room.

He breaks it down in a way that I (as a white person) had never really considered before.

Basically he asks the question: what is a society? He argues that a society is basically a contact, where everyone in there agrees to abide by the rules. We don't steal from shops. We don't damage property. We go to work, we raise our children, we drive our cars. We follow the rules and we reap the benefits.

But that's just not the case for black people in the US. They follow the rules, and yet they're not given the same protections and benefits as everyone else - white people.

So why do we still expect them to uphold the rules of society? Society isn't playing fair with them, and really hasn't ever.

I'm making this point from memory, and I can't do it as well as Trevor unfortunately... but watch the video. Consider it part of the "educate yourself" that everyone keeps talking about.

@PatricksRum you are upset, but not a good orator, if you can't make it here, you won't make it anywhere. A thing called empathy, you can't fake. Your own point and the opposite can all be discussed. You have nothing really to drive this forward,

[quote themental]@BovaryX you clearly have a huge problem with the looters.

I understand. It's almost a knee-jerk reaction. We're brought up in a society that worships capitalism, so of course seeing people destroy the "pillars" of capitalism may seem shocking.

Please, if you have facebook, watch Trevor Noah's video on this. He hosts a program in the US called The Daily Show but with Covid, it's in his living room.

He breaks it down in a way that I (as a white person) had never really considered before.

Basically he asks the question: what is a society? He argues that a society is basically a contact, where everyone in there agrees to abide by the rules. We don't steal from shops. We don't damage property. We go to work, we raise our children, we drive our cars. We follow the rules and we reap the benefits.

But that's just not the case for black people in the US. They follow the rules, and yet they're not given the same protections and benefits as everyone else - white people.

So why do we still expect them to uphold the rules of society? Society isn't playing fair with them, and really hasn't ever.

I'm making this point from memory, and I can't do it as well as Trevor unfortunately... but watch the video. Consider it part of the "educate yourself" that everyone keeps talking about.
[/quote]
That's an interesting point but

Some of the looters are white

And

Many of the homes and businesses that were looted and destroyed belonged to black people who, in turn, are angry and suffering because of what's happened. So, how has that improved anything? Black people have been killed by the looters. A retired black police officer was killed by black looters as he tried to.protect his friends store - what point is being made in all of that?

It's hardly socking it to the white man when it's black people being killed and having their businesses destroyed is it?

*It seems to me op that you are racist against all other races.

Why would you not want racism against anyone to end?

How have you answered the above question with

Because they're racist.

I asked you why you wouldn't want racism against anyone to end and your reply is because they're racist. What, everyone is racist?*

It's quite simple. The one reason why someone wouldn't want racism to end is because they are, themselves, racist and potentially benefiting.

I'm sorry that I again have to tell you, no, not everyone is a racist.

I'm not asking you to list ways I should use my white privilege. I'm asking what your insistence on limiting racism to only black people means in practice.
I have never limited racism to only black people.

Does it mean that white people should ignore racism against say Asian people? Because if it doesn't, then we are fighting to end all racism. If it does mean that you want us to ignore racism against everyone who isn't black - well, that's discrimination as well as being immoral in my book, so if that's what you're asking for then no I'm not being a part of that.
I'll post the same photo again again again.*

I will absolutely stand against all racism.*

Beyond sick of reverse racism/ sexism and colourism being rife within this community. Devaluing the hardships of each individual. You do not fight hate with hate. Just because your culture is different, your cour is different, your community is different does not mean you haven't been objectified or disadvantaged.

Just because your culture is different, your cour is different, your community is different does not mean you haven't been objectified or disadvantaged.
Who said that?

I asked you, op, why you don't want racism to end and this was your reply

It's quite simple. The one reason why someone wouldn't want racism to end is because they are, themselves, racist and potentially benefiting.

So, you've just said that you, yourself are racist and potentially benefitting???

*I asked you, op, why you don't want racism to end and this was your reply

It's quite simple. The one reason why someone wouldn't want racism to end is because they are, themselves, racist and potentially benefiting.

So, you've just said that you, yourself are racist and potentially benefitting???*

Apologies. Misread. Thought you said why wouldn't anyone want racism to end?

In answer to your original question then, I didn't say I didn't want all racism to end. I said all racism isn't at the forefront of our movement or this thread.

Fuck it. Get the feeling Patricks won't thank me for this support on basis that I am openly terfy (and there will be zero apology on that front)

However. if you can't bring yourself to recognise that there are obvious and significant ways in which racism impacts UK society I don't know what to say to you. Recognising it doesn't take anything away from you but it might mean a great deal to those it affects.

Some of the looters are white

If you believe some of the reports coming out of the US, some of the looting was started by white supremacists to absolutely fan the flames and do the cause a disservice.

I have a friend in MN who saw a bus load of white "skinheads" arrive from out of state. Make of that what you will.

Many of the homes and businesses that were looted and destroyed belonged to black people who, in turn, are angry and suffering because of what's happened. So, how has that improved anything?

Maybe it hasn't, but how can it possibly make it any worse?

The President is fanning these flames. He has, last time I checked, done absolutely nothing to try to reach common ground. To even start a discussion.

I really hope the businesses have insurance, but if it actually works and finally lights the spark that leads to real change, then maybe in hindsight it will all have been worth it.

Bear in mind we've destroyed 1000s of businesses in the UK and tanked our economy for a virus that is ending people's lives. I won't get into the debate here on how deadly the virus is and the demographics... but basically we can destroy businesses when white lives are at risk, but when it's only black lives that are risk then businesses are more important?

Also, RIP to any officers who have lost their lives. I'm absolutely not condoning that.