You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

You know what I've noticed, and it's crazy, a white person can be so defensive when called a racist. More defensive than they are over black people being killed.

Are you calling me racist?

A) I am not racist

B) I do NOT defend black people being killed, or anyone being killed. That's an appalling thing to say & I'm reporting the post

C) I am strongly rebutting that I called you aggressive due to your skin colour. I called you aggressive because of your posts & how you treated other posters (not me, actually)

@PatricksRum

I find it grossly insulting that you think I'm calling OP aggressive due to her skin colour. That's an absolutely appalling assertion. You** know what I've noticed, and it's crazy, a white person can be so defensive when called a racist. More defensive than they are over black people being killed.

Oh give over.

Many of us have repeatedly on this thread, and in real life, vociferously condemned what happened to George Floyd. What they did to him was evil. I cannot think of any other word to describe it.

On the other hand, I don't really care if you call me racist. I know that I'm.not so what you call me is neither here nor there.

@EarringsandLipstick sigh... It's okay. Try to breathe as you sound very stressed. Have you read this article yet www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/16/white-fragility-racism-interview-robin-diangelo

@CoachBombay

Racism in the UK is alive and well sadly in 2014 me exdp and baby DS were turned away from a independent hotel because "people like us" mixed race family/Jamaican heritage weren't allowed to stay. They wouldn't accept that.

Imagine that for a second, do you think a all white family would get turned away from a hotel in the UK? No.

This is what OP means when she says white people can't experience racism. It's just not a daily thing.

I'm not dismissing what happened to you. That was appalling.

But that does happen to people from the Traveller community. They book weddings in hotels and when the hotel finds out who they are, they cancel because of their race.

So, I'm not dismissing what happened to you but, yes, some white people do experience it because of their race.

I agree that I for example, won't experience what happend to you based on race. I did witness it when I was in a relationship with an Asian man, so it wasn't done to me but it was done to us as a couple, but now no, I wouldn't experience discrimination or racism and that is terrible that it is still happening.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras racism is not just the N word. It is very insidious and we are all infected by it to one level or another. The continual emotional labour you force on OP in this thread and your refusal to listen is telling. Please take up an educational option and have the courage to say you don't know what you don't know. You are missing a piece of the puzzle. Find it.

[quote NotNowPlzz]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras racism is not just the N word. It is very insidious and we are all infected by it to one level or another. The continual emotional labour you force on OP in this thread and your refusal to listen is telling. Please take up an educational option and have the courage to say you don't know what you don't know. You are missing a piece of the puzzle. Find it.[/quote]
Where have I referenced the N word? I've got no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, I will educate. Maybe you and the op will educate yourselves too about the experience of other minority ethnic groups in regards to racism. To continually day that white people can never experience racism is equally uneducated. I also recognise all BAME and the racism that they suffer. They seem to have been forgotten about in this discussion.

This is just a shitshow. Op, I admire your ability to keep up with this crazy ass thread!

Why, just why, can't white people just say, "yes, I have clearly benefited from systemic racism in society. And that is not right. Let's make our societies a fair playing field for everyone."

The US has a long history of racism towards blacks. Slavery, Jim Crow laws. It's not that other people's difficulties in life don't matter; it is simply that right now, let's focus on the huge problem of discrimination against black people. White people can never really understand the struggles of black people, but we can listen, and we can support. We ALL have to do better.

Oh, and for those who think the OP should "educate" them on the black struggle, please google. There are tons of resources available. Many have been listed in this thread. It's not her job to tell us how to be less racist.

@BovaryX

"Your posts are abusive, inflammatory and deliberately designed to incite racial division. Your thread title is a joke. You don't get to redefine the meaning of words according to your Newspeak dictionary. I am not white. I think your posts are offensive BS."

I agree. I am not white nor black.

Racism is defined as:

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

By grouping all white people together you are being racist. Same as if you grouped any other race together and said they all do something.
By denying and trying to erase their experiences of racism by say 'white people cant experience racism' you are being both horrible and incredibly decisive. By its very definition any race can experience racism, it is not you place to tell people what they have/haven't experienced, anymore than it is a white persons place to police what you as a black woman have experienced.

You are absolutely right that right now is about black people and it's their time to share their experiences. However the way to do this is not to deny other people's experiences but just to talk about you own and ask that only other black people share and that white people listen, not by trying to tell white people about their own experiences.

I would never try to deny black people experiences of racism when talking about mine, but I might ask that only other Indian people share so that we can compare and support each other in our common experiences. That is the difference.

*Are you calling me racist?

A) I am not racist

B) I do NOT defend black people being killed, or anyone being killed. That's an appalling thing to say & I'm reporting the post

C) I am strongly rebutting that I called you aggressive due to your skin colour. I called you aggressive because of your posts & how you treated other posters (not me, actually)*

Why are you so defensive? I've been called a racist many times on these threads and not once have I defended myself against the accusing.

Where in the post did I write you were racist btw?
You are repeatedly interpreting posts in a different way and making claims based on your own interpretations instead of what was actually said.

*I'm not dismissing what happened to you. That was appalling.

But.*

You are totally dismissing pp's experience.

I'll repeat again.

^A victim walks into a police station and says "ive just been raped" and the officer responds with
"that was wrong. I remember when I was raped. It was in London. What happened was, I went to a club with my two beat friends, Sophie and Alice..."
It ISN'T ABOUT YOU.^

OP, I read most of the thread, but it made me feel really stressed. Oh my goodness, I had no idea it was so bad for black people. It's frustrating to those who absolutely do not engage in racism though. My children, from a very young age, described their friends without mentioning skin colour. But, I do know of some people in the older generations who occasionally say racist things. My awful dad was. My Xmil is, I despise it. I would always argue or snap back at them. But I don't associate with anyone who is racist or a bully. So, yes, I supose I am guilty of mentioning the fact that idiots will just use any reason to pick on people, but, that's due to having the wrong focus when replying. It was never to reduce the importance of your issue though. Apologies. I understand that you want to discuss the very real issue of racism towards BAME people, and to stay focused. But not knowing any BAME people who have suffered racism made me feel like it was pretty much non-existent in the UK now. Then I read threads on MN and you're talking about racism not just the bullying like what thin, fat, red haired, people from.certain areas, get. I am shocked to be reading that it's still like this in parts of our multi cultural country.
I support you. Racism needs to go from this country. I'm really frustrated that it's still happening here. We should all be angry about that.

Yes, I will educate. Maybe you and the op will educate yourselves too about the experience of other minority ethnic groups in regards to racism.
Literally a broken record. There's always a but or turning the thread back onyo me.
How many times do we need to say it?
This is about black lives fight for their lives.

By grouping all white people together you are being racist.

We were once a human race. White people came and grouped us all. We are white and you are black therefore you are inferior. We're already grouped.

@StrawWaterBottle

Another thing. Grouping people fofether isn't racist.

It's prejudice.

I said I'd posted for the last time but OP continues to say I'm lying!

OP, you said I was lying - here are your direct words:

You're talking out of your arse. I haven't responded to a post about someone being fat and disabled. If I did, I would have likely said I'm sorry for your experiences but this thread isn't about that.
I'm disabled myself.
You're lying rn.

I then quoted your reply to the poster (that you said you hadn't replied to) ergo I am not lying
And you post again to say I'm lying 🤷🏻‍♀️

This is clearly v v minor in relation to the other things you've said to other people. But you need to be called out on repeated attacks.

Regarding everything else - you cannot tell other people what matters right now. For other people, the prejudice & abuse they experience does matter right now

Having read all of both threads I don't think you have any credibility OP. You don't genuinely respond to anything put to you. You have barely mentioned the specific events related to George Floyd while berating others. I find both your threads attempts to goad, upset and attack others, and nothing to do with (rightly) calling out systematic racism, abuse and maltreatment of black people.

@thenamesarealltaken
Thank you. This is exactly what I was hoping for.
I 100% do not think every white person is racist simply for being white. Nor do I think they should be held accountable for their ancestor's actions. However, it is their duty as a privileged member of society to stand up against it as you are doing. So thank you.

@PatricksRum

This thread is by far and away one of THE most hateful threads I have ever come across on Mumsnet, and I’ve been here a long time.

Racism is racism and is wrong regardless of who is experiencing it!
White people can't experience it.

I’m sorry but that’s like saying men can’t experience rape.

I’m sure with a little thought, what you actually meant to say was that white people cannot experience racism in the same way black people do.

I’m sorry but I can not entertain this thread for a second longer. I won’t argue against a side I’m already bloody on. The whole tone and direction and evolvement of this thread is not a direction that goes towards solving anything or moving anything forward, all I can see is the hate, nasty remarks, belittling comments and sheer narrow mindedness, which for the topic at hand is nothing but sad. Very sad indeed.

@EarringsandLipstick You said I was horrible to them. That is your lie.

Show me where I've been horrible to them.

you cannot tell other people what matters right now.
Yes I can. It's my thread.

I find both your threads attempts to goad, upset and attack others, and nothing to do with (rightly) calling out systematic racism, abuse and maltreatment of black people.
It's not about your feelings.

No OP.

You said that you did not reply to the poster and that if you had, you'd have sympathised.

I showed you exactly where you had replied and what you said

You've ignored this. And you keep saying I am lying. I am not.

You said you never replied, and that was a lie by me.

you cannot tell other people what matters right now.

Yes I can. It's my thread.

What are you, 2?

No. You don't get to police how other people respond, on a public forum.

It's only your thread in that you started it. Posters are 💯 entitled to define what matters to them right now

Not only ONE THING matters. FGS

Racism is racism and is wrong regardless of who is experiencing it!
Agreed.

I’m sorry but that’s like saying men can’t experience rape.
No it's not. Rape is a physical act of forced sex. Racism is a mindset.

I’m sure with a little thought, what you actually meant to say was that white people cannot experience racism in the same way black people do.
No it wasn't. I said what I wanted to say.
White people can experience racial prejudice.

I’m sorry but I can not entertain this thread for a second longer.
Don't then.

I won’t argue against a side I’m already bloody on.
You already have.

The whole tone and direction and evolvement of this thread is not a direction that goes towards solving anything or moving anything forward, all I can see is the hate, nasty remarks, belittling comments and sheer narrow mindedness, which for the topic at hand is nothing but sad. Very sad indeed.
I've asked already, how do you suggest we stop white people killing us then?
We've tried peaceful protests, we've tried violent protests, we've tried empathetic watered down words, we've tried aggressive words, we even had a black president. How do you suggest I solve the issue of my people being killed? I'd love to know how to work it.

I find both your threads attempts to goad, upset and attack others, and nothing to do with (rightly) calling out systematic racism, abuse and maltreatment of black people.

It's not about your feelings.

What's not about my feelings?

I didn't mention my feelings.

I gave my judgment on your threads and approaches therein. Nothing to do with my feelings.

And I'm allowed to do this - my view, my right to have one, and express it on a forum.

Please at least try reading what others write.

LOL @ white folks feeling stressed and anxious reading this thread... Do you have any idea how stressful it is to be a Black person at all? I can only imagine, but if being stressed and upset by this thread was the only thing they had to worry about, their lives would be so much easier.

People need to stop derailing with asinine whataboutism. Stop comparing yourselves to Black people as if your experiences as white people even come close to being similar. They do not.

So many people here are making it about themselves, which is typical of we whites, we have been used to being in control and the moment that is challenged, we throw out toys out of the pram, and have a tantrum. Outstanding. 🙄

And you keep saying I am lying. I am not.
If you're not lying, show me where I was horrible to this poster...