You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

@CandyLeBonBon Hey again! I remember you from last night.
Teaching your dc is the way to make this change I believe. Raising our children to challenge racism in hope of a better, more equal future.

@PatricksRum

I knew this would be a buffet of loathesomeness from whiny white people who don't want to learn anything, so I thought I'd stick me oar in.

Everyone else (except those who are clued up): Black women do a HUGE amount of emotional labour with racial issues, they are always approached and asked for where to start and what to do, without anyone considering how they're feeling about current events, they will be exhausted, tired of repeating themselves, horribly triggered especially when people keep sharing footage of Black people being murdered and tagging them in it, believe me they will have seen it and do not need to be retraumatised by it because people lack the empathy to realise that. It's also not cool to stand up and say HEY LOOK WHAT I DID I'M A GOOD ALLY, because it's not about being an ally, it's about being a decent fucking person, and you don't get a cookie for that.

Performative allyship is also ridiculous - where you don't genuinely give a shit but you pretend to by participating in whatever feel good social media change of the now is. Most recently blackout Tuesday was purely performative - blacking out photos and not posting anything for one day does absolutely nothing to help Black people, and all the social media influencers who did it won't have felt a single loss to their earnings for one day. Do it for a month maybe? Sure. One day is not enough. People need to be standing up against racism every fucking day, not just when someone suggests white people use a hashtag to make themselves feel better.

If you genuinely want to help - them starting here is a good idea, and you can help even if you can't protest, can't donate, and are broke.

blacklivesmatters.carrd.co/

There is no excuse for not doing anything. We as white people need to get over ourselves and start acting in positive ways that get things done.

UGH this fucking app and it's lack of ability to generate paragraphs!

It's not your place to ask me as a black person how I am fighting racism. It's not even my job.

What??!! It's not your job to participate in the democracy that you are criticising for oppressing you? Even when your participation in that democratic process could bring about the change that you want? But you expect us to do it for you? Do you understand how democracy works?

How do you expect change to happen?

I watched protesters in America challenging police officers. There were some attacking the police, saying that if they were against racism they should resign, that you cannot be a "good" police officer and work for a racist regime. That makes as much sense as what you've just said op. Get the decent people to walk away and then be left with the truly ones and no one to stand up to them.

So, don't engage in the political process because "it's not your job" but don't be surprised if nothing changes.

@Leeeeeyaaa it's not wrong to not see colour when you're interacting with people. You're treating them all as human beings and that's right. When it becomes wrong is when it's ignoring the racial realities that exist. Black men are being killed by police which is part of the white power structure. Colour and race does come into it, and it's an absolute tragedy. Everyday black people in the west face stigma and prejudice. If you can't see their colour you can't acknowledge their pain and struggle

Whataloadofshite

And yet there's another thread running where the op is criticising anyone who didn't participate on social media because, and I quote her, "silence is compliance". On social media. Someone else commented that they've made a note of all their friends who didnt post something and will remember.

So you say we shouldn't have posted, others say if we didn't post we are part of the problem.

Go figure. Is it any wonder some of us are asking what we can do?

What??!! It's not your job to participate in the democracy that you are criticising for oppressing you? Even when your participation in that democratic process could bring about the change that you want? But you expect us to do it for you? Do you understand how democracy works?
Of course it isn't. It's a disgusting state of the world where we have to fight for our lives. Where we have to protest to reverse the years of oppression and racism that we've been subjected to, that *we did not start.

How do you expect change to happen? *
By white people standing up and challenging racism. By racists being prosecuted.
*
I watched protesters in America challenging police officers. There were some attacking the police, saying that if they were against racism they should resign, that you cannot be a "good" police officer and work for a racist regime. That makes as much sense as what you've just said op. Get the decent people to walk away and then be left with the truly ones and no one to stand up to them.*
What has one protestor's words got to do with me? I'm not accountable.*

So, don't engage in the political process because "it's not your job" but don't be surprised if nothing changes.*

So you say we shouldn't have posted,
That's not what was said.
You shouldn't post about your feelings and experiences. It's not wrong to post entirely

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

What??!! It's not your job to participate in the democracy that you are criticising for oppressing you? Even when your participation in that democratic process could bring about the change that you want?
How could it? Has it so far? Could even a black president fix all the problems? A huge swathe of America was outraged having a black power figure over them, which is why they voted for Trump.

But you expect us to do it for you?
She expects white people to do the work to dismantle racism, for all of our benefit. Is it for OP that we fight for innocent black men to stop getting killed? Do you not want it to stop?

Do you understand how democracy works?
Horrible and underhanded.

How do you expect change to happen?
By white people changing their hearts and minds.

I watched protesters in America challenging police officers. There were some attacking the police, saying that if they were against racism they should resign, that you cannot be a "good" police officer and work for a racist regime.
Unfortunately the American police is infiltrated by white supremacist group members and is white supremacist and racially biased in nature. This is well documented. Go and look it up. If you were being unfairly targeted all day every day you might be driven to say similar.

Get the decent people to walk away and then be left with the truly ones and no one to stand up to them.
The decent people would never walk away. They fight for what is right, even if it hurts. They don't expect to be pandered and babied by black people in order to stand up for humanity. They don't see it as doing a favour for black people, they consider it their duty as a moral human being.

PatricksRum

I'm not asking you to protest op. I'm suggesting that a way for you to effect the change you want is by engaging with the democratic process.

White people can't change that for you. One person, one vote.

As individuals we can stand up to racists, yes. We can call out racism.

Racists should be prosecuted - absolutely. Who makes the.laws though? That's politicians. If you won't engage in the process to elect sympathetic politicians then you won't get the laws or the political will to execute the laws.

I think you are over estimating the ability of the public to be able to change the structure of society.

@Fatarseflanagan09 Reported.

@NotNowPlzz Thank you!

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Whataloadofshite

And yet there's another thread running where the op is criticising anyone who didn't participate on social media because, and I quote her, "silence is compliance". On social media. Someone else commented that they've made a note of all their friends who didnt post something and will remember.

So you say we shouldn't have posted, others say if we didn't post we are part of the problem.

Go figure. Is it any wonder some of us are asking what we can do?

I've cited two books to read if you go back and look at my posts.

Hth.

I haven't contradicted myself at all, OP. I have just observed how you've manipulated a topic to turn people who are united over an issue against each other. I think your job is done

That just about says it for me.

@NotNowPlzz I appreciate your response. I’m not ignorant to racism. But people saying, don’t say “you don’t see colour/race” it’s offensive & ignorant is confusing.

I'm not asking you to protest op. I'm suggesting that a way for you to effect the change you want is by engaging with the democratic process.
You don't need to suggest anything to me. As NotNowPlzz said. Where has doing this got us so far? We're still being killed.*

White people can't change that for you.*
One person, one vote.
Yes you can. White people make up 81.9% of people in the UK. You can change far more than we can. 81.9% of people. 81.9% votes.*

As individuals we can stand up to racists, yes. We can call out racism.*
Yes you can.*

Racists should be prosecuted - absolutely. Who makes the.laws though? That's politicians. If you won't engage in the process to elect sympathetic politicians then you won't get the laws or the political will to execute the laws.*
Who said I don't engage? You've made that up.*

I think you are over estimating the ability of the public to be able to change the structure of society.*
Humans can change society. It's your duty as a white person to help this.

@Leeeeeyaaa confusion is part of the learning process and is normal. If you want to find it less confusing and understand it I recommend you read some books. @Whataloadofshite has recommended some.

White Fragility is a good one.

How could it? Has it so far? Could even a black president fix all the problems? A huge swathe of America was outraged having a black power figure over them, which is why they voted for Trump.

But that's what I said earlier - there needs to be far more BAME MPs in parliament and those that are there now need to be doing a better job of representing BAME people and of removing systemic racism. I don't understand the American political system but Obama didn't have the support to make the changes did he? Our system here is different but you need the right people in power. We, as white people, can't get more BAME MPs. They have to put themselves forward and then once elected they have to do want needs to be done.

The decent people would never walk away. They fight for what is right, even if it hurts.

Yes they do. So why tell them that they must be racist by virtue of the fact that they have stayed in the job?

Again on social media today I watched footage of a protester in London shouting at a female police officer for thirty minutes, that she should be challenging racism.within the police force and that she's part of the problem because she refused to break ranks and cross over to the protesters. What sort of argument is that?

@Dreep then how come there are still white people standing with OP? It's convenient to paint a hurting black woman as manipulative, aggressive and the source of the problem. This is simply projection. There is a great deal of manipulation and aggression on this thread and it's not from the OP.

But that's what I said earlier - there needs to be far more BAME MPs in parliament and those that are there now need to be doing a better job of representing BAME people and of removing systemic racism.

I've explained to you so many times that it isn't our job to reverse the racism inflicted on to us.

Again on social media today I watched footage of a protester in London shouting at a female police officer for thirty minutes, that she should be challenging racism.within the police force and that she's part of the problem because she refused to break ranks and cross over to the protesters. What sort of argument is that?
Why do you keep asking MNERS to explain the behaviour of other people?

Yes correct it irrelevant. This thread is about black people historically being savagely killed because of the colour of their skin

Based on the thread title and OP. I thought it was about:

You're white you haven't experienced racism

Which is why it's a bit baffling that some people are so up in arms about white people responding with their experiences of racism. If OP wanted to talk about black people historically being savagely killed because of the colour of their skin rather than white people and their experiences of racism (or lack thereof), wouldn't she have chosen a different thread title?

@NotNowPlzz thank you, I’ll give it a go, I’m not much of a bookworm. I get more from films, “the Help” was very educational. Horrifying but educational. I’ll take a look around

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras stop derailing the conversation by bringing up words of random protestors. one doesn't speak for all.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse. Could you please make a statement about George Floyd as that's why we're all here. Could you get to the heart of the issue please and stop avoiding it with side issues.

@Leeeeeyaaa I love that film! Completely forgot about it.