You're white you haven't experienced racism 2 *title amended by MNHQ at OP's request*

[PatricksRum]

I started a thread in the early hours.

I fell asleep
I've checked the thread and it's full.

Whilst the thread sadly proves my OP, there were a lot of great posts and understanding by some MNers.

I think this discussion is so important and I'd like to continue.

These photos sum up the ridiculous responses.

Do not tell me I am doing my oppressed race a disservice
Your racial prejudice faced as a white person do not trump the daily racism and fear for our lives

Finally, if your response to this is to explain your tiny grievances of racial prejudices you've faced then you are wholly part of the problem.

The racist behaviours and thoughts by your people is the problem. It is your duty to understand and tackle it. I repeat, it is not the duty of black people to educate you.

Because it wasn't racially motivated nor is it a common occurrence.

Who says it wasn't racially.motivated? You?

You don't have a history of your race being oppressed so why would you say that?

Fuck.off. My family are Jewish. I get that's not the correct form of oppressed people as far as you are concerned but don't tell me that my relatives who were Polish Jews didn't suffer oppression.

You've lumped all white people together,
That's what white people have done. They have lumped all black people together. This has led to seclusion. We now have black race and white race instead of just the human race. It wasn't mean who lumped people together, believe me.

you've referred to a murderer who happened to be white "ours", you've said white people are killing black.people - which may well be true, people.of all races are killing.
Again "all races are killing" "all lives matter" yes we know. But that's not what this is about.*

How many people on here have referred to black people as "yours" or held you responsible for anything done by another black person?*
They are. The thread isn't about what internalised racism.*

I'd love to change the political system.in this country. I'd love all politicians to be far more diverse and to represent the communities that they come from, I'd love for the BAME politicians that we do have tondo much more to dismantle racism in this country. I feel as utterly powerless as a wet paper bag to achieve that though. I will challenge racism wherever and whenever I witness it, as I always have done.*
Excellent. That's great! This is what we need.

I feel as utterly powerless as a wet paper bag to achieve that though. I will challenge racism wherever and whenever I witness it, as I always have done.

I think this is true of many white people including me. When it's there in front of me I will and have challenged. I'm not going to go into an "aren't I great!" account of all my doings but I feel ok about them and I know I am not racist. But yes I do feel powerless because I just don't know what else I can do from the position I am in. I have no influence, I am a single parent of disabled children who I have had to fight for since the day they were born. I know how to fight believe me, I just don't know how to fight for this unless someone who does nudges me in the right direction but you don't want to do that OP, you've made that quite clear and that's fine.

I still question your motives in the language you used as the starting point for discussion on this thread and I still don't know what you're trying to achieve but I suspect that's just how you like it.

@Jangirl2018

It is very cheeky to be asked to teach people. There are so many books, documentaries ( BBC had some good ones) that is so easy to access, heck even I had to research what books I wanted to buy regarding black history, racism, etc, and I am black! I’m not born with an inbuilt wealth of information on the intricacies of racism, black history, colonialism, etc.

That said no one would want me to educate them because once I start on the thievery and stolen, yes stolen as there was no lovely fair negotiation over the land in South Africa and the genocide by the Germans for land in Namibia that was essentially the blueprint for their “final solution” and don’t get me started on Zimbabwe and Australia, I doubt it will end well. And before someone tries to say that’s in the past, we need to look forward, everyone needs to understand and unpick at that past, as that is the main reason why what is happening now, is still happening... over 500 years on!

I haven't contradicted myself at all, OP. I have just observed how you've manipulated a topic to turn people who are united over an issue against each other. I think your job is done.

backseatcookers

But you are using a man as an example. What do we, as women, expect men to do in order to challenge sexism or rape or misogyny?

We expect individual men to be decent, to call out behaviour if they witness it, to challenge friends, to raise their children to do better. Do we expect them to change the world, or hold them responsible for crimes committed in other countries? Maybe society does, maybe I don't see it because I'm not a man, maybe men feel as attacked as many of us are feeling on this thread being blamed for things that we aren't responsible for and have no control over.

Ok just read your last post and honestly I simply can't be arsed anymore, which again I suspect is exactly as you like it. It's genuinely like arguing with one of the stroppy teenagers I know

I'll check in tomorrow and see more of the same no doubt but for now I am off to bed.

@peppapots

This is really testing me.
I'm trying so hard not to attack you right now.

Do black people not also not kill white people? Black on white crime also exists. But let me guess because it’s ‘your’ people and ‘your’ fight that fact is completely irrelevant isn’t it? Don’t start bashing white people then expect support and to be listened to because you won’t get it.

What the fuck don't you understand? THIS IS ABOUT US FOR FUCK SAKE. I'M NOT FUCKING SAYING IT AGAIN.
*
A complete exaggeration! Like you’ll step off a plane in the US or any country and instantly be shot at because of the colour of your skin! What type of BS has got into your brain? We all agree that racism exists and is a problem but to the extent you can never travel because you’ll be shot at because you are black? Its just ridiculous thinking.*

How the FUCK do I know that?
I'm being very honest right now. My auntie is in the US. Since dc was born she has asked me to go over there. Years later I haven't because I'M FUCKING SCARED. I'M SCARED. I'M SO SCARED of the racism there. I'm scared what I'll experience from them. I'm scared I'll face more abuse than I do here. I'm frightened. How can you tell me thats not true?!!!'N

@peppapots

Do black people not also not kill white people? Black on white crime also exists. But let me guess because it’s ‘your’ people and ‘your’ fight that fact is completely irrelevant isn’t it?

Yes correct it irrelevant. This thread is about black people historically being savagely killed because of the colour of their skin. Have you been watching the news lately?

Don’t start bashing white people then expect support and to be listened to because you won’t get it

There is plenty of support from people who are able to think with clarity and reason with logic and recognise the issue that is so clearly being presented. If you feel ‘bashed’ that’s your problem, take responsibility for your feelings.

I still question your motives in the language you used as the starting point for discussion on this thread and I still don't know what you're trying to achieve but I suspect that's just how you like it.

How to put this politely. I don't give a shit if you question my motives. I don't give two fucks what you're thinking.
It isn't about you.
Hth

Murder is murder whatever your colour but if you want to make a martyr of someone choose the old black man who'd led a decent life, he was shot dead and left on the pavement by another black man who was looting his friends shop, don't try and make a saint of a carreer criminal who had previously held a gun to a black womans pregnant stomach and stole her cellphone and her money, it does your fight no service and is hypocritical.

Well that's a shame because I did give two fucks about what you were thinking hence my engagement on the thread. I imagine many people couldn't GAF now though, I know I don't!

Night

That's what white people have done. They have lumped all black people together. This has led to seclusion. We now have black race and white race instead of just the human race. It wasn't mean who lumped people together, believe me.

Some white people have done that, even many white people have done that. "White people" haven't done that, just as "black people" aren't trying to create divides now.

Op, you're fond of telling us white people to fight to change things. What are you doing to change things? Do you vote? Do you vote for a party committed to fighting racism? Do you challenge MPs on the issue? Do you lobby for change?

Who says it wasn't racially.motivated? You?

Yes.

*You don't have a history of your race being oppressed so why would you say that?

Fuck.off. My family are Jewish. I get that's not the correct form of oppressed people as far as you are concerned but don't tell me that my relatives who were Polish Jews didn't suffer oppression.*
You said
There was a white girl killed by a black man in a park near me - I would never say that means black people are killing white people nor, as you said, "your race has killed another one of our race".*

If you're not white I'm not sure why you said that if you're ethnicity is jewish

@Flippyflo Thank you for listening. Thank you for your post.

Murder is murder whatever your colour but if you want to make a martyr of someone choose the old black man who'd led a decent life, he was shot dead and left on the pavement by another black man who was looting his friends shop, don't try and make a saint of a carreer criminal who had previously held a gun to a black womans pregnant stomach and stole her cellphone and her money, it does your fight no service and is hypocritical.

Don't you dare tell me how to fight.
You've been reading too many racially motivated Facebook posts with no sources of evidence. Think again

Well that's a shame because I did give two fucks about what you were thinking hence my engagement on the thread.

That makes no sense. It you don't give a fuck about my thinking why did you engage in my thread? Why did you ask me for my opinion on what you should do to combat racism?

If you're not white I'm not sure why you said that if you're ethnicity is jewish

What? I am white, what are you talking about? I was answering your claim that my race has no history of oppression. I said that my family are Jewish and so although it's not your approved form.of oppressed people, my family understands oppression.

Some white people have done that, even many white people have done that.
You don't say?
"White people" haven't done that, just as "black people" aren't trying to create divides now.
No black person is trying to create a divide. The divide was created by white people. It's already there.
*

Op, you're fond of telling us white people to fight to change things. What are you doing to change things?*
It's not your place to ask me as a black person how I am fighting racism. It's not even my job.
Do you vote? Do you vote for a party committed to fighting racism? Do you challenge MPs on the issue? Do you lobby for change?

why did you engage in my thread?

See there's your mistake. It isn't your thread. It's a thread that you started on an internet forum where anyone can post and comment. You don't get to control who posts, or what they say. That's up to MN, not you.

I don’t understand why saying “I don’t see colour/race is offensive or wrong. I say this, I don’t look at someone & think about their race or religion etc. I take them as they are. I don’t get how that’s offensive or wrong

What? I am white, what are you talking about? I was answering your claim that my race has no history of oppression. I said that my family are Jewish and so although it's not your approved form.of oppressed people, my family understands oppression.

You're ethnically jewish or ethnically white?

See there's your mistake. It isn't your thread.

It is my thread. I posted it on Mumsnet. I don't own mumsnet nor do I own this thread. It's still my thread.

Hi OP I was on here a lot last night (insomnia). I've ordered a couple of books to read and have been talking to my kids about things.. we have a silent protest locally which I'm interested in but one thing I'm very wary of is being guilty of virtue signalling or being patronising. What you experience is abhorrent but I'm aware that I can put down a book and get on with my life if I want to and you and many like you can't. I wish I knew how to make a bigger or better change.

@YgritteSnow so if you were so devastated about George Floyd, and you're asking what you can do, I'll tell you what you can do. Stop fighting the OP so viciously. I am honestly so exhausted reading your posts. They drip with venom. Why would you say you're down for the fight but don't know what to do, then come back for multiple rounds of attacking OP? It is all so hurtful and emotionally draining.

Btw, have you read White Fragility?