I don't think I am BU with my view on Black Lives Matter?

[doglover65]

I am an active social media user and since the BLM movement gained more momentum I began posting more and only about this.

I will preface this by saying I am mixed race - my mum is white British, my dad was born in Kenya although my heritage is mixed that side, not African. My dad came to the UK (granted citizenship following my Grandad's service in the RAF) and was raised British despite his dark skin - he has no cultural aspects beyond a few specific dishes he can cook relating to his heritage. He was encouraged to fit in and therefore different cultures were discouraged to protect him. I am completely British in every way I act. I suppose for me, growing up, I have been very confused.

I remember the day I realised I wasn't white, I was sat in front of my mirror in my bedroom and was so upset - I hated my dad for it. I have only suffered a small amount of obvious abuse such as being name called a 'paki' but I also represent the current 'ideal' look - I am olive skinned, I have dark British textured hair, I speak very Southern British, and I tan easily. So there's always been a conflict, in some ways people idealise my skin colour but I have also felt a disassociation with my culture. I've witnessed my dad being called the 'n' word in our Home Counties town. I've realised people did treat me differently growing up.

So when I educated myself more on BLM over the past few years - I felt so upset. Whilst I cannot truly understand what black people have gone through, I have still experienced racism in the UK and always been dismissed when I spoke up.

Now that this movement has gained voice I made a statement on social media that silence is a form of compliance - I truly believe this. I suppose I have a few reasons and there are caveats:

• my friends who are also active on social media - who must be to have seen me post my point about silence - were happy to post donation links and information on Run 5, Donate 5, Nominate 5 for NHS.

• they are happy to share stories /posts about bikinis, competitions, make up etc.

• they often send funny memes

• why would you stay quiet? if you're reading things, why not share how useful they are for others, or at least the donation link.

This has caused an issue with two people (or those who have been vocal) both white and extremely privileged (parents own million pound houses, bought them their first house). The first is the fiance of my best friend - he is an absolutely terrible person regardless (if she posted on here people would tell her to run. he wants to come on my hen do to monitor her!) so I just responded reasonably and we agreed to disagree.

The second was my best friend. I said to her why I felt the way I do and she said she just disagrees. We left it as I didn't want to argue. But when I shared another BLM post she sent me the rolling eyes emoji, I thought this was just rude now. She said she doesn't agree with the post.

Now AIBU to feel the way I do? I am so confused now about my friendship.

Of course YANBU.

There are lots of racists out there, unfortunately.

A fair number seem to have joined MN recently to foment trouble here too.

Don't let it get you down. And no, anyone who is racist is not your friend.

• My question: what are white people supposed to do to make the world a better place?

Treat us like you would like to be treated. Don’t assume the worst or stereotype us because you don’t personally know many like us or you had one bad experience and definitely don’t use it to silence our grievances or experiences. See us as individuals and different communities, not a “Black” community or hive. When we calmly tell you something sounds racist or that something isn’t true about parts of our cultures, don’t get angry and definitely don’t tell us some white person who is not of our communities, who knows little told you something and choose to believe them over us, listen as we explain to you why. Don’t bring up the issues of our communities as a way to justify or take away from our struggles in this society.

Don’t assume that black movies involving drugs and gang violence represents us all or that we all think the same and like the same foods, music, etc... Get to know us beyond whatever stereotype or lies you’ve been told by one person or group. Give us the same opportunities that you would give people that look like you. Don’t write us off because you can’t pronounce our names or it looks strange to you. Some names have cultural significances, some are homages to much loved living and deceased ancestors. We can’t help what our parents choose for us.

Acknowledge our history, contributions, and our struggles including the atrocities committed against us. Call out people who say racist things or when you witness people being unfair or wrong towards us.

Pretty much, treat us as humans, not a separate species.

@user16737355389

OP, can I ask what your social media is full of and your general daily interactions? If silence is compliance I presume you take this stance with every issue facing humanity today? That type of thought can be applied to so many issues such as child abuse, sexism, racism, modern day slavery, poverty, animal abuse and so much more.

I understand that systemic racism is what’s currently getting attention and rightly so. I don’t want to take away from that but I think your issue is not related to it specifically. You either take the stance that silence is compliance regarding all major issues in life, including systemic racism, or you don’t in which case you would be a hypocrite to believe this and lecture others about something you only believe in when it’s a cause that is personal to yourself.

If you don’t speak out constantly and consistently about all the above issues too yet are against them, then surely you can see the flaws in your thought process and that saying silence is compliance in regards to systemic racism is not as black and white as you currently seem to believe.

Not speaking out does not solely have to mean you condone anyone’s actions or words or even believe it yourself whether this is in relation to systemic racism or not. If you believe this train of thought then you’re on rather shaky ground regarding morals and ethics in my opinion. I would not look through your Mumsnet history and presume you to be pro modern day slavery or child abuse for example just because you may not of spoken out against it before.

Should people speak out against injustices and not just quietly not be something? In an ideal world yes but it’s never as simple as that answer alone and taking such a stance that is so polarised your more likely to cause further division and not the unity you and most people wish for.

As for what you have experienced and any other person who has, I am sorry to hear that and I truly wish that wasn’t the case ❤️

I completely agree with this post.

phoenixrosehere

Thank you for responding. I really hope that I do all of those things. I think my question was more in response to the calls being issued for white people to do more, that silence is compliance, that we must speak out in some way but then people that have done so have basically been told that it's wrong for white people to speak out now because it's taking away from black Voices and we should stay in our lane.

I want to do the right thing. Racism disgusts me. I was in a relationship with a man from a BAME background for three years - I saw how he was treated first hand and it did open my eyes to discrimination that he faced doing things that I took for granted. So, I want to confront it but I don't want to do that in ways that upset or offend the very people I'm trying to support.

This is really tricky. I can understand why you feel hurt by your freinds response. However, I'm not silent about BLM in RL but I haven't shared or posted anything on SM about it. It's not what I use SM for and I can not stand getting involved in debates with people that are fixed in their views and refuse to consider any other view, those that intentionally look to start arguements and generally behave in a way that they wouldn't if it was a face to face discussion. In my opinion SM isnt the place for productive debate and education on important issues. My silence on SM isnt compliance and I would hope that all that know me will understand that.

I feel for you, I really do. I can’t imagine how it feels to see this sort of shit, day in, day out.

But I have a different perspective, one that has evolved over time. I’m white. My children are mixed race. My husband’s family is from Jamaica. A few years ago, I would have been the first to shout about this, loud and clear. But these days...I feel so frustrated and weary by the social media posts that seem to jump on and then everyone forgets after a while. I began to feel like a fraud by posting things that now just feel like words. All my friends that are using the black profile pic or posting memes or videos - as nice as people they are, they won’t be talking about this in 3, 4, 5 weeks. I know they won’t. That’s their privilege- and mine.

I have been getting so pissed off seeing friends posting about children’s books to talk about racism...you should have been having those conservations ANYWAY. It shouldn’t take yet another police brutality for that to happen! This shit has been going on for years. I mean - how long ago were the LA race riots?? It makes me so mad and so frustrated and nothing changes. And that’s how I feel - a white person who has never experienced racism and never will.

So I feel like I choke on my own words now, because I don’t feel like I do much to contribute towards change. I can’t bring myself to post stuff about BLM because I want it to be more than just because George Floyd was murdered. Does that make sense?

We try to raise our children with awareness. We try to make ourselves aware. We expose them to Alala, and Malcolm X and understanding the wide historical and societal impact of black history. It’s so much more than slavery - we try to learn and teach ourselves and our children - to just try to contribute somehow to breaking up systemic racism through generational change.

So my silence is not compliance. In any way at all. If I see racism, I point it out loudly. But I can’t bring myself to ONLY post when something happens. This outrage on social media will dissipate in a few weeks, sadly. I feel like I either passionately get behind it or recognise my own short comings. I can no longer just have it as something I do something about, because something has happened to someone. I hope this makes sense. Your friend sounds very mean, with her eye rolling. That’s not where I’m coming from. You have all my sympathy and all my support but I stay quiet because I don’t want to jump on a social media bandwagon. It’s so much more than that.

You are not BU @doglover65 - it's your so called friends who are being unreasonable.

From a personal perspective I post anti Fascist, anti Brexit material & make it obvious on Facebook that I'm no Boris fan.
It has lost me Facebook friends who were only acquaintances or colleagues who I wasn't that keen on anyway.

But for you I think it's harder as it's closer friends who are showing you who they really are.
Being Black is an important part of who you are & they are disrespecting that.
I would be having serious issues with them now.

So, I want to confront it but I don't want to do that in ways that upset or offend the very people I'm trying to support.

That’s the thing. Some of us are more open to discussion and others are not. You have to gauge which people are open to it and those who aren’t. I’m open to talking about my experiences even when it is a bit uncomfortable for me, but I also understand for others it is much more difficult. I believe a lot of people aren’t purposely racist but more ignorant than anything else and it is even worse when they are in places that don’t have diversity.

The eye rolling emoji was out of order, but I wouldn't have taken well to a friend writing that my silence was compliant with racism. A friend wrote this on her Instagram story and internally I hit the roof. I didn't say anything though because she's very argumentative and has form for saying people are racist when they arnt (and that's not my white privilege speaking, she had someone sacked saying they made a racist remark when I witnessed the remark and it was not racist)

If they don’t usually post to social media then no, their silence isn’t necessarily compliance, but if they normally post a lot and are vocal about other stuff then absolutely I agree with you.

The emoji thing was rude.

But being silent about it on SM (most people have private anyway) does not mean being complicit.

Silence = complicity was always about the silence when you see it happening.
If you see someone making racist comments, challenge them (unless it's dangerous for you). If you don't then THAT can be counted as complicity.
Not talking about it on FB is simply not the same.

If my friend said I am complicit to racism because I don't post for my 34 Facebook friends who are my family and close friends (so you knew we aren't racist🤷🏻)... I would quietly nod and not speak to them again. If someone would think so badly of me for something so little, which isn't even my fault (because just today I've seen number of post about how 'whites' should be quiet and leave space for black people) there is no point to be friends... Sadly.

YANBU to feel upset about it, your feelings are your feelings, and of course you're directly affected yourself.

Maybe they're not posting on social media because they feel that it's slightly unseemly bandwagon-jumping on the part of white British people, especially as they don't live in the US so don't have any genuine knowledge or understanding of the situation there.

I abhor racism, but I haven't posted anything on fb about the current situation - I feel it's not my place to. If there was a racist incident in my town I would be more inclined to shout about it.

On the other hand, if a black friend posted something on social media about racism, I would definitely not post an eye-roll emoji, that is not OK.

I do not think you are in any way remotely unreasonable.

However - I am white and afraid of posting which might be construed as pompous virtue signalling. Some of the things that my friends have shared in disgust that have been said by their white male bosses in well-meaning (I think) attempts to recognise what is going on, make me think that I am not best placed to speak and would do better not to wang on about things I may know nothing about.

I am sorry if my silence is complicity and I will think about how to oppose racism without being a self righteous arse.

@doglover65 I have challenged racism in my work place, the only place I have observed it (that I’m aware of though had I been more observant Iv probably seen more than I realise). I fully appreciate and agree with your stance that silence is compliance. I truely do.

I do admit have been quiet on sm and in discussions because I’m honestly worried about coming across as a clumsy well meaning but ignorant white person who is trying to appear “woke”.

Iv not commented on any other threads either for the same reason. I’m not completely uneducated and I can’t think of any other issue where I have felt so lost for words.

But your post made me realise that not at least trying and staying silent is about me not about you, This is your time.

So. Black lives do matter.

All lives matter is an attempt to dilute the issue by the racist and the ignorant.

I don’t understand but I won’t stand for it any longer. I’m sorry if and when I have ever been unknowingly part of the problem.

Good for you OP keep on funding out and expressing you opinion and experience. I am mixed too and have suffered overt and covert racial abuse throughout my life. I post and stand up against racism. You should and can too. It's your right to do so. If your friends can't support you well they aren't true friends.

Oh and the eyerolling emoji from your friend is bang out of order rude and aggressive

Pretty much, treat us as humans, not a separate species.

With all due respect, that’s not the question that was asked.

The question was, people are berated for keeping silent and berated for having a “white saviour” attitude if they speak up. Which is right?

YANBU. It must be quite upsetting to see this side of your friend coming out, and I would absolutely be having a good look at the friendship.

YANBU OP. Im mixed race. My partners long term best friend (they are both white) made racist comments to me on a microphone (think of making monkey noises on the microphone everytime I walked past the DJ booth where he was 😡) i obviously heard, my partner heard aswell and confronted him but apparently hes not racist as it was only a joke and I overreacted. Still absolutely fuming my partner still speaks to him.

I was out with friends at a local pub once and had a random guy tell me if I was a man he'd punch me. I had not even looked at this man so was overly confused and thought he had got me confused with someone! Then he explained it was because of the way I looked (not english even though I'm bloody english) he said he would not hurt a female but would have started an argument with me if I was a man. We left the pub pretty quickly. He was drunk, but he was still a dickhead.

Also. Let's not forget that there are very conflicting information. There is currently a thread where somewhat unhinged OP said that white people should shut up and listen. Which is what I heard commonly in last few days.

How is then one supposed to know when to talk or not?

Again though. The emoji was rude af

I am not prolific on social media but I don’t post anything about BLM because I don’t want to be just another rich white person jumping on the bandwagon, who has no idea what it is to walk in the shoes of a black person, particularly those of an African American male.
Instead I choose to try and educate myself about the movement. For now that’s as much as I’ve done.

*With all due respect, that’s not the question that was asked.

The question was, people are berated for keeping silent and berated for having a “white saviour” attitude if they speak up. Which is right?*

I clarified my response with said poster and I ask that you re-read it.

I said that black people are individuals meaning I can only speak for myself as a black person. Some black people may see something as a white saviour attitude or when white people should be silent and I and other black people may not see it that same way. It depends on context.

There are a lot of comments here to the effect of "White people are being told conflicting things to do. Which is right?"

I guess it's inevitable that people of colour are not going to all want the same things from their white friends and acquaintances. The recent events have brought up a lot of past trauma and injustices. Like with supporting a grieving person, the thing that's helpful for one person can be the exact wrong thing for another.

Some need to feel that their friends are showing they care, even if it's by an awkward post. They want a chance to talk about it.

Others feel weirded out that they are suddenly being seen as "the black friend" when people contact them, they can't face the emotional labour of having to discuss these painful and contentious issues with friends who've never experienced it, or they're fed up of having to explain the same things to again and again.

Silence can feel hurtful, but sudden caring can feel fake.

I don't know the answers, I think there probably is no perfect answer. We can acknowledge that and still try to listen, learn and be sensitive to black and ethnic minority people's pain.

Who are you to dictate how people should use their own social media? What right do you have to tell people how to spend their time? Your own posts are lengthy and elaborate, does it not occur to you some people can't neccesarily process the cacophony of an echo chamber and articulately form a response after what could have been a long and stressful day for them? Your cause is justified, your approach is not. Since lockdown people seem to forget for a lot of people not sitting at home on furlough each day can pose its own challenges and stresses, we're not all able to be on SM all day and we don't all want to talk.