I don't think I am BU with my view on Black Lives Matter?

[doglover65]

I am an active social media user and since the BLM movement gained more momentum I began posting more and only about this.

I will preface this by saying I am mixed race - my mum is white British, my dad was born in Kenya although my heritage is mixed that side, not African. My dad came to the UK (granted citizenship following my Grandad's service in the RAF) and was raised British despite his dark skin - he has no cultural aspects beyond a few specific dishes he can cook relating to his heritage. He was encouraged to fit in and therefore different cultures were discouraged to protect him. I am completely British in every way I act. I suppose for me, growing up, I have been very confused.

I remember the day I realised I wasn't white, I was sat in front of my mirror in my bedroom and was so upset - I hated my dad for it. I have only suffered a small amount of obvious abuse such as being name called a 'paki' but I also represent the current 'ideal' look - I am olive skinned, I have dark British textured hair, I speak very Southern British, and I tan easily. So there's always been a conflict, in some ways people idealise my skin colour but I have also felt a disassociation with my culture. I've witnessed my dad being called the 'n' word in our Home Counties town. I've realised people did treat me differently growing up.

So when I educated myself more on BLM over the past few years - I felt so upset. Whilst I cannot truly understand what black people have gone through, I have still experienced racism in the UK and always been dismissed when I spoke up.

Now that this movement has gained voice I made a statement on social media that silence is a form of compliance - I truly believe this. I suppose I have a few reasons and there are caveats:

• my friends who are also active on social media - who must be to have seen me post my point about silence - were happy to post donation links and information on Run 5, Donate 5, Nominate 5 for NHS.

• they are happy to share stories /posts about bikinis, competitions, make up etc.

• they often send funny memes

• why would you stay quiet? if you're reading things, why not share how useful they are for others, or at least the donation link.

This has caused an issue with two people (or those who have been vocal) both white and extremely privileged (parents own million pound houses, bought them their first house). The first is the fiance of my best friend - he is an absolutely terrible person regardless (if she posted on here people would tell her to run. he wants to come on my hen do to monitor her!) so I just responded reasonably and we agreed to disagree.

The second was my best friend. I said to her why I felt the way I do and she said she just disagrees. We left it as I didn't want to argue. But when I shared another BLM post she sent me the rolling eyes emoji, I thought this was just rude now. She said she doesn't agree with the post.

Now AIBU to feel the way I do? I am so confused now about my friendship.

She said she doesn't agree with the whole message.

But that’s ok. She doesn’t have to agree with it. She’s entitled to do that. Just as you are entitled to debate with her or ignore her and continue. You can’t force people to agree, that’s where tyranny lies. What you can do is hope that enough people, particularly those with the power to make decisions realise that the current situation is not one a civilised world should accept.

White privilege feels like an insult until you look into it, maybe a better term would be more like white advantage?

No matter what you call it, there will still be those who don’t understand it and maintain that X people in Y situation are not privileged (or advantaged) because of their own situation.

I think white privilege is a difficult concept for people to feel because it is almost always the absence of something bad i.e. white privilege is all the problems you don’t have to face because of the colour of your skin. You can still lack social and economic privilege but a BAME person in the same situation would face additional issues relating to their race.

Does your friend basically see you as a white woman?

I do understand totally what you are saying, however, your post came over as preachy. I listen, read, learn and pass on what I’ve learnt to my family. I don’t do fb.

You cannot force people to participate but the eye roll was rude. Maybe send her a text / give her a call ?

She sounds like an ignorant cow. How can she ‘disagree’ with something you have experienced and she can never have any experience of??? The mind boggles.

The eyeroll was rude.

I personally refuse to use social media to preach at my friends and family about anything. I hide people who preach. No matter how much I believe in their cause.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I do post about most things in which I am made aware of / that I discover.

However, this is hard to ignore BECAUSE people have shared over social media.
We only know what really happened to George Floyd because of modern technology and social media.

You can end silence by simply resharing, reposting or retweeting the video footage or ANY message from ANY person about the facts of the case, for example that the cops have now been charged with second degree murder. No one would ever accuse you of being involved wrongly.

Likewise, you can retweet the black voices you see on twitter, you don't need to add to it, or say more, but you can spread their voice.

I genuinely think it's wrong to keep silent. There is SO MUCH you can say if you think about it, even a simple "I donated, the link is here" instagram created a nice little sticker for everyone to do that.

The more it's talked about, the more people will hear.

Even when you broadly support a campaign or movement, you don't always agree with every post about it. Social media isn't good at nuance.

I have seen BLM virtue signalling posts from people I know are as racist as fuck, and while I'd love to think they'd undergone some kind of damascene conversion, it seems unlikely when they also think Priti Patel is right to quarantine arrivals into Britain.

As a wise PP suggested upthread, now is a time for listening.

I think many people remain silent because they are worried that they may say something which might offend someone even though they do not mean to.

I agree that the term "privilege" sounds like wealth, property ownership and inheritance etc and many white people do not have that, but the term privilege is defined as "having rights, advantages or immunities" which white people do have. It is possible to have quite a hard life but to still have advantages because of whiteness.

You can still lack social and economic privilege but a BAME person in the same situation would face additional issues relating to their race.

Correct. And just because that person may have social and economic privilege that you don’t that doesn’t mean they aren’t affected by a lack of white privilege.

Like most people I have many many friends on FB. I also follow local small businesses and organisations whose aims I support.

If we all posted on BLM there would be no chance of seeing any other posts at all. I only share information or ideas that I feel several of my friends won’t already know about.

I could accept the silence of work colleagues or people I call acquaintances.

I can agree to disagree on some issues with my friends.

But as you have very eloquently outlined the BLM is becoming part of your identity which is in turn developing your core values & beliefs.

If your best friend doesn't have the same or similar values, beliefs as you - can you be best friends? Has your relationship possibly run its course?

I’m genuinely in some quandary and would like to learn.

Disclosure: I’m of white but non-British heritage.

I accept that whites have inherent privilege as they are not systematically discriminated against.

I accept that even disadvantaged whites (eg homeless people) still have white privilege because even with their difficulties they are not being discriminated against because of their skin colour. Those who point out that a rich black person is more privileged than such a person is missing the point that the rich black person still faces race based barriers.

I accept that an “I’m colour blind so I’m not racist” attitude is simplistic as we can’t be colour blind while racism is a real thing.

I accept that “All lives matter” misses the point- white people aren’t being targeted and killed by police disproportionately and based on skin colour.

I accept that, culturally, white people are likely to be subconsciously racist even if they are not consciously racist or want to be racist.

But here is my issue:

White silence is compliance with racism.

But...

White person speaking out creates a “white savour” problem.

My question: what are white people supposed to do to make the world a better place?

I would like to hear the views of Black people on that issue, please.

The best way I saw it described was:
"White privilege doesn't mean your life is easy. It means it's not made harder by the colour of your skin"

[quote doglover65]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I do post about most things in which I am made aware of / that I discover.

However, this is hard to ignore BECAUSE people have shared over social media.
We only know what really happened to George Floyd because of modern technology and social media.

You can end silence by simply resharing, reposting or retweeting the video footage or ANY message from ANY person about the facts of the case, for example that the cops have now been charged with second degree murder. No one would ever accuse you of being involved wrongly.

Likewise, you can retweet the black voices you see on twitter, you don't need to add to it, or say more, but you can spread their voice.

I genuinely think it's wrong to keep silent. There is SO MUCH you can say if you think about it, even a simple "I donated, the link is here" instagram created a nice little sticker for everyone to do that.

The more it's talked about, the more people will hear.[/quote]
But you saying that you post about most things that you are made aware of - does that me you are compliant with all of the other things you don't post about?

Have you posted about the people that have been killed in the riots in America?

Have you posted about Islamophobia or anti semitism?

I mean maybe you have. Maybe your social media is just post upon post of activism on every subject but I find it hard to believe.

I just don't agree that not posting on social media means you are compliant, particularly when every action is being criticised for being the wrong one.

I too am of mixed heritage. My white grandmother married my black grandfather in East Africa after WW2 and it was not well received by either side.

However I was born and brought up in a part of the UK with very little diversity and must say have always considered myself white.

My dad is of Spanish/Italian heritage and I am often asked if I’m Italian. My mum although dark skinned got her mum’s straight hair and I got my dad’s silky black hair, so I do look more of an exotic European.

My mum is often asked “where she is from” and experienced racism as a teen and young woman when she moved to the UK to study. I have not had that experience and my friends are all white or Asian.

I have been silent on social media because it feels like a bandwagon to be honest. I don’t see what a black square is going to do unless you are just keeping up appearances. I don’t ever, and don’t want to start, use social media for politics or opinions. It makes my teeth hurt when people I know start spouting off all over Facebook and then get nasty when their view is challenged. I just don’t think social media is for that. Twitter maybe, but not Facebook or Instagram.

Maybe that makes me compliant. I hadn’t thought of that. And to be honest it doesn’t bother me if it’s seen that way. I can hold my own views on what happened to George Floyd without needing them publicly validated.

I also have never had anyone stick their neck out for me in the sense of being racially different to my peers. I am not sure if it has or has not disadvantaged me in my life as I can’t compare to being “all white”.

I just get on with my life and try to be a decent human being without feeling the need to broadcast that to a wider audience.

I'm not black but BAME. Tbh before 9/11, although I had experienced racism I was quite ignorant of the extent to which black people experience it. I was probably one of those who would hear a news story of police brutality against a black person & think perhaps there was more to the story, the police wouldn't go that far for no reason.
Then my husband and I (after 9/11) began to get stopped & questioned at airports during holidays every single time for years and years. Every single time the reason given was the same: we fitted the racial profile in terms physical appearance. It only stopped when we had children which was after many years of struggling with infertility. It was only during those years that I truly understood how it felt like to be treated as 'the other', be made to feel like you don't belong, worrying about how others perceive you/if they're suspicious of you, worrying whether you should hide your ethnic/religious background on job application forms etc.

I have also seen discrimination against black people in other non European countries. I can't pretend I understand 100% but I'm a lot less ignorant than I used to be. However, IMO sending a rolling eyes emoji is more than just being ignorant.

My question: what are white people supposed to do to make the world a better place?

You raise a good point. Seems to be a fine line and likely differing opinions. I saw a debate yesterday where someone was being told they should actively seek out BAME friends in order to make sure their social circle had a suitably diverse range and lead by example. That seems like similar to the “I have a black friend, I can’t be racist” type of thing. On the other hand I saw someone post “I’m exhausted being everyone’s one black friend at the moment”

I think it’s a case of doing what feels right. Taking action that’s tangible and not just something that looks good on SM but makes no difference.

@phoebesphalange that's fair enough. I'm quite a political person so I enjoy having those interactions, I like to state my opinion and happy to do so on FB, I don't do it too often though.

I don't think the world will change though if we keep quiet and women keep quietest of all so do it can be a positive thing.

But op, there are those of an opinion that if your are white and share a post, people will listen to it.

But....if lots of white people do that, it will drown out the many posts from bame creators that aren't being shared.

And it also gives the impression that people are listening because ots been endorsed by a white person.

I totally respect your opinion and feelings. But yours is not the only opinion and not the only way to do things.

Lots of peolle onlt use social media for fun. Not for influence.

My point is that just because you don't witness someone speaking up, doesnt meam it's not happening.

@Suetty I'm not black but of mixed black descent, but what I do see quite often is that people of colour aren't given the benefit of the doubt. Where I've worked in more than one office, quite a few actually, you've been more likely to be on a performance review/monitored list, less likely to be promoted, more likely to be viewed with suspicion being BAME and it's really sad. I haven't raised it in my current team because there's a weird culture but I find it sad that BAME people have left.

So, although I know it's hypocritical because I haven't done anything, watch out for it. If people in your workplace look different then don't over analyse what they do because it's not fair, be objective. If there aren't any BAME people then why not, if they're interviewed but don't get the job then why not? If someone makes a comment about why that Asian man doesn't like following instructions from a woman then ignore them and make your own mind up. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they don't like your colleague who has decided that all BAME men have a problem with women! (This happened to me twice in two workplaces and both men have been really hard working, professional people and one turned into a good friend)

When I was a manager I had a bit more say. The only black man in our whole office had ALL his work audited, the previous manager was suspicious of him. Nothing was ever picked up so I stopped it, it wasn't fair.

A black woman was pregnant and I was told to watch out because it would probably be a difficult pregnancy, it wasn't, she never had a day off.

Give them the benefit of the doubt, because often that's what white privilege affords you and has done me because that's how I look.

I would look for some more friends. The eye roll is rude.
I am sure that a lot of people don't want to get into these discussions because they are too anxious about saying the wrong thing. In my experience

I think racism is appalling. I have made no mention of it or taken part in anything on soshul meeja about it, even though I am quite a chatty facebook user.

why? because social media is just a game and a communication aid, and doesn't matter. People may be doing something in real life.

I certainly never do the chain letter thing, you know the one 'I bet most of my friends won't share this'. To which the answer is 'correct, sweetybumps'.

incidentally what makes a particular look 'ideal'???? isn't this part of the problem?

Seeking out BAME friends sounds patronising in my opinion. If it happens, it happens. If not, that's not an excuse for living with your head burried in the sand. I am not an activist sort, but I just try to keep informed in general, and more in depth if a subject matters alot to me, and will speak up if faced with injustice without antagonising/putting myself in danger. For example: I wouldn't necessarily go to a protest, but have argued(not fighting or shouting, just making my stand clear) with my dad and a friend when I heard them spewing out racist comments.

OP, can I ask what your social media is full of and your general daily interactions? If silence is compliance I presume you take this stance with every issue facing humanity today? That type of thought can be applied to so many issues such as child abuse, sexism, racism, modern day slavery, poverty, animal abuse and so much more.

I understand that systemic racism is what’s currently getting attention and rightly so. I don’t want to take away from that but I think your issue is not related to it specifically. You either take the stance that silence is compliance regarding all major issues in life, including systemic racism, or you don’t in which case you would be a hypocrite to believe this and lecture others about something you only believe in when it’s a cause that is personal to yourself.

If you don’t speak out constantly and consistently about all the above issues too yet are against them, then surely you can see the flaws in your thought process and that saying silence is compliance in regards to systemic racism is not as black and white as you currently seem to believe.

Not speaking out does not solely have to mean you condone anyone’s actions or words or even believe it yourself whether this is in relation to systemic racism or not. If you believe this train of thought then you’re on rather shaky ground regarding morals and ethics in my opinion. I would not look through your Mumsnet history and presume you to be pro modern day slavery or child abuse for example just because you may not of spoken out against it before.

Should people speak out against injustices and not just quietly not be something? In an ideal world yes but it’s never as simple as that answer alone and taking such a stance that is so polarised your more likely to cause further division and not the unity you and most people wish for.

As for what you have experienced and any other person who has, I am sorry to hear that and I truly wish that wasn’t the case ❤️