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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

All lives matter

350 replies

Scoobyboob · 03/06/2020 13:43

I’ve disabled voting because today has been a lot already! I can’t deal with seeing another such stark display in % or how few people support BLM.
Is there a black Mumsnet section? I could do with somewhere to discuss race with other BAME people and Allies that doesn’t get hijacked with

•all lives matter
•what about...
•I’m oppressed too
•white people are suffering as well
•if black people would just...

Happy to hear suggestions for other forums as well. I don’t think Mumsnet is standing against racism, so i’m happy to flounce to get what I need. Which certainly isn’t the silencing of black voices whilst overt racism goes unchecked!

Hi Justine 👋 and fuck off Karen!

OP posts:
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AliBear90 · 03/06/2020 18:15

@Scoobyboob can I ask you a question and I don’t mean this rudely. But I was having a debate with a colleague yesterday and wanted to ask someone this. Do you deal with everyday racism regularly? Because I said I believe all black people deal with this on a day to day basis. As I was told by this person that I was silly for putting the black square and black lives matter on social media. They are in the all lives matter category. I tried explaining that the difference is that white people haven’t been historically oppressed or judged or disadvantaged for the colour of their skin (I am white as is my colleague who I was debating with). Anyway it got quite heated and we ended up not talking for a while as she doesn’t believe racism is an issue any more and I believe it’s still a huge issue and that she needs to educate herself. Sorry for the long post and I’d like to hope you don’t suffer a large amount of racism, but unfortunately I think I know the answer will be that you do x

Panicbuying · 03/06/2020 18:19

Really pisses me off when people come out with the “oh but it’s white men who commit most of the violence so you should focus your anger on them”. It’s just a way of excusing ourselves as white women from having to do any of the work to deal with this scourge of racism that runs through our society. We may not be the ones who commit the majority of the physical violence but racism runs so much deeper than that. It can be difficult as white women who still face oppression because of our sex to really acknowledge and face up to our racial privilege (difficult isn’t even the right word but I can’t think of a better one right now! Just that it means adjusting our deep seated notions of ourselves which can be a shock) but things won’t change if we don’t.

GeraltOfRivia · 03/06/2020 18:21

If you're looking for a positive for MN OP then This forum has been an excellent educator. As a white, comfortably off, woman I have learned that when it comes to matters of racism I should stop speaking and listen to what black people and people of colour are telling me is the impact upon them.

I have learned how bad racism is in this country, I have had my eyes opened to factors I had never considered, and I am a better person for it. Please don't strive to take your conversation elsewhere. I want to support anyone suffering under bigotry and the very beat way I can do that is to continue to learn and be challenged and then apply that learning in my real life.

And I know you shouldn't have to teach me. I know that in and of itself comes from a place of privilege. I have never asked for education, but I seek it for
myself by reading your experiences.

TheHoneyBadger · 03/06/2020 18:28

Friend has replied to my apology. I’m so glad I caught myself and immediately straight out apologised for being a dick rather than trying to justify it.

Ego is a slippery fucker that gets in the way of humility and just facing you were wrong or unfair.

Must try and hold onto that

wehaveafloater · 03/06/2020 18:31

Why did you have to end your post you 'fuck off Karen' ?

TheHoneyBadger · 03/06/2020 18:35

I may be way of base here but I feel like all the impassioned anti racism of white peoples is counter productive sometimes. It others racism to something out and over there that no one wants to be associated with.

A better starting point may be to admit we’re all racist not just the crazy gun toting supremacists or the people who use racial slurs we wouldn’t dream of saying but all of us. It seems to be part of human nature whether we like it or not and whether we’d rather deny and dissociate from it.

Getting it out of the shadow and acknowledging seems like it’s the proper first step in working out how we go about dealing with that and mitigating it’s effects

Idontbelieveit12 · 03/06/2020 18:37

I hate this “all lives matter” bull shit

All lives matter
RosesandAnts · 03/06/2020 18:41

I don't think a separate section will work. It's makes no difference. have you been on the Philosophy and Religion boards? someone will post about help finding a church and immediately all the atheists will pop up to jeer about the 'fairy' in the sky. When you remind them this is the Phil & Reli section so pls don't derail, they will tell you MN is an open space for everyone and you can't tell them where to post..and on until the thread is derailed and the OP driven away. They do with impunity.

No one will care if you start a separate board, it will be a battle everyday for it not to be derailed. There's a multicultural families board which isn't controversial, people come once in a blue moon looking for advice on things specific to BAME, hair products, its a dead board, hardly anyone goes on it. Why? Black women or BAME people are outnumbered on MN! we need their participation to have dialogue, and its that dialogue that is used to shut the topic down. We cannot push away the pack when they descend. We need their input, otherwise, who are we appealing to?

I don't think racism will ever be eradicated, I think it may be controlled to a point but you can't change the sense of entitlement in people, years and years of privilege is hard to erase from are a person's psyche and like they say "equality sounds like oppression to the privileged". The indoctrination of prejudice that comes as naturally as breathing air. After all, this is what we are asking white mothers to help with?

There are many well educated, intelligent and knowledgable women on MN. How can so many not understand a simple slogan, "Black Lives Matter"? more complex matters are discussed on MN and several women come forward and explain. We have senior lawyers on the forum. Above all, there are strong parallels to be drawn from gender equality debates. I disagree they don't understand. They are opposing it because it sticks in their craw, they don't like it and it angers them, how dare you! so they pretend to have misunderstood and pervert to mean something senseless.

I don't know what the answer is, there are very unique and amazing white men and women, they are truly amazing in their empathy, humility and willing to lay down some of their privilege to stand side by side with black people to help. So I'll work with those ones when I find them.

MN to me is a place to discuss daily banter but keep your race anonymous. The majority are not interested in discussing our issues.

Jellycatspyjamas · 03/06/2020 18:51

I have a different experience of dedicated boards, I’m a regular poster on the adoption forum here where there’s a good group of really knowledgeable people who very much understand the issues adoptive parents face.
Just about every thread on the main boards relating to adoption turns into an utter shit show, but discussions on the adoption board are respectful, supportive and accepting. There’s no reason why a BAME section couldn’t be similar - all it requires is for people not to be cunts.

If folk here are expressing a need for dedicated space, I’m reluctant to say they don’t.

bowtieandheels · 03/06/2020 19:02

This.

All lives matter
bowtieandheels · 03/06/2020 19:03

And this.

All lives matter
seesensepeople · 03/06/2020 19:03

Black Lives Matter!

The All Lives Matter discussion reminds me of George Orwell's "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Try updating that as "all lives matter but some lives matter more than others" and I think you get the idea of why we need to positively affirm that those lives which seem to be in the group that don't matter quite as much really do matter to us.

Time to get Orwell's books back off the shelf.

overworkedandstressed · 03/06/2020 19:24

I remember being a little girl and seeing a black man for the first time ever. I got a little frightened and my dad took my hand knelt beside me and told me the only difference between him and the black man was Melonin pigment. I didn't know what Melonin pigment was so he tried his best to tell me but also told me never to be afraid. Because of this ive never been racist but in all honesty ive never been actively Anti Racist either. I get the difference now its not enough to not actively be racist its important to be actively Anti Racist and from now on I will fight this fight together. I really hope this isn't forgotten by majority of white people when some other big news comes by. Enough is enough. Black lives matter and lets work together so one day black people can walk down any street with no worries just like I can. I understand white privilege I will never feel the way black people feel but I can actively show my support. I don't want my children to witness things on tv that we are seeing. Lets not forget and be prepared this is a marathon not a sprint. Be all in or not at all

Fameinaframe · 03/06/2020 19:35

No I don't want a section for the black community on mumsnet Shock

I am no different then anyone else and it's this kind of nonsense that makes me feel "different"

All lives matter yes! We should not be focusing on skin colour/heritage .

Sorry I know you mean well but the fact you have even suggested this just shows how many black women like me are made to feel separate from whites.

FlyAwayLikeABird · 03/06/2020 20:07

Earlier my partner responded to a discussion about black lives matter with 'but...'. I kept my calm.

sixthtimelucky · 03/06/2020 20:14

I'm so embarrassed and dismayed by 'all lives matter' comeback. It's ignorant, obtuse, deaf and in some cases racist.

I'm white, but I'm not sure having a BAME section is the answer.

I am listening and hearing and that's all any of us that live with white privilege can do.

GreytExpectations · 03/06/2020 20:31

All lives matter yes! We should not be focusing on skin colour/heritage

You clearly don't get it. By saying this you are dismissing the current serious issues black people face.

TheHoneyBadger · 03/06/2020 20:52

Well obviously not every person of colour would be interested in that board. Not every woman is interested in feminism.

No one rounds up feminists and forces them onto that board and they still post in other places some even in style and beauty (that took some getting my head around initially).

Having a place where people can if they wish to share their thoughts, experiences, joys and frustrations with people who share those things or are also interested in them is of great value as the number of boards on mn proves.

You’d need hq onside though because I reckon it would need serious moderation until the bullies gave up and accepted yes you are allowed to have a space where your experiences are centred and no mn is not going to shut it down if enough people scream loudly enough. Given they’re putting the hat out for donations they may not be up for the fight.

Not everything has to be about everyone and what aboutism is fucking exhausting when you’re trying to have a decent conversation

Tonz · 03/06/2020 21:54

M@overworkedandstressed. I'm the same as you I thought not being racist myself was enough I didn't think anything I could do could make a difference.. I have now learnt that I can be actively anti racist and will do everything in my power to help and protest against racism and encourage more white people to join

overworkedandstressed · 03/06/2020 21:59

@TONZ
Good il be doing the same. Incase anyone missed it I just saw George Floyds murderer has had his charges changed from 3rd to 2nd degree murder and the other 3 scumbags have been charged with aiding and abetting. All 4 face 40 years. Lets pray justice is done

Tonz · 03/06/2020 22:03

God I hope so. There's a wee girl out there missing her daddy. A wife going to sleep alone and people missing their friend. I hope they get the full 40

Fameinaframe · 03/06/2020 22:04

You clearly don't get it. By saying this you are dismissing the current serious issues black people face

Grin yeah I do not have a clue what I face daily. My point is I should be seen as a human that's it! Not black my colour has nothing to do with anything. The more times people use it as a way to identify me the longer these issue will remain.
I saw a corrupt police man murder a innocent man.
Whilst others saw a white police man murder a black man.
There is your problem, right there!

LunaMuffinTop · 04/06/2020 02:04

I’m white and I just pulled someone up on Facebook for this all lives matter shite they are trying to compare what happened to Emily Joan’s to what happened to George Floyd they are not the same thing at all I didn’t realise just how blind and ignorant some people are.

NurseButtercup · 04/06/2020 07:29

@AliBear90
Do you deal with everyday racism regularly?

Yes

BonnesVacances · 04/06/2020 07:39

Hi Justine 👋 and fuck off Karen!

Who's Karen and why does she have to fuck off? Confused

All lives matter, except if you're called Karen and then it's ok to be a stereotyped as a racist middle-aged white housewife. Nice one OP! Hmm

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