All lives matter

[Scoobyboob]

I’ve disabled voting because today has been a lot already! I can’t deal with seeing another such stark display in % or how few people support BLM.
Is there a black Mumsnet section? I could do with somewhere to discuss race with other BAME people and Allies that doesn’t get hijacked with

•all lives matter
•what about...
•I’m oppressed too
•white people are suffering as well
•if black people would just...

Happy to hear suggestions for other forums as well. I don’t think Mumsnet is standing against racism, so i’m happy to flounce to get what I need. Which certainly isn’t the silencing of black voices whilst overt racism goes unchecked!

Hi Justine 👋 and fuck off Karen!

@LunaMuffinTop

I saw this on twitter:

"The fight to end oppression for animals is the same fight to end the oppression of black people. All sentient beings deserve to live #BLM".

I support the ethos of all the animal rights campaigns, but this statement is tone deaf and sits alongside the all lives matters whatiffery bullshit.

I can understand why you would want a separate BAME section on MN. There are plenty of people who use these threads to tell you why you are wrong about perceiving the treatment you receive as racist or to explain why they are not racist as if the thread was all about them. I'd prefer to see us coming together rather than further apart but I can see how exhausting it is to explain yourself time and again to people who have no real interest in listening to your lived experience or even just observing what happens in real life.
I'm hoping "Karen" isn't the lazy stereotype used to refer to middle-aged white women who are perceived as entitled because it is ageist, sexist and racist and would reveal a set of prejudices you don't appear to have examined for yourself whilst expressing frustration at others apparent unwillingness to do just that.

@FOJN
I'm hoping "Karen" isn't the lazy stereotype used to refer to middle-aged white women who are perceived as entitled because it is ageist, sexist and racist

" "Karen was a term created specifically by black women in America to talk about white women's interpersonal and state violence against us and our communities" Alicia Sanchez Gill.

The moniker 'Karen' is about a set of behaviours exhibited by white women towards black people including gaslighting our accounts of racist incidents, talking down to us in the workplace, calling the police on us if we're not obedient and comply with her request.

The latter example is the most dangerous, because in America, when 'Karen' calls the police, it's with the knowledge that the police come with guns.

I fully support erasure of racism but one of the aspects I can never fathom with the BLM is the failure to address this within a group as well. In most countries the statistics show that it is more a problem within communities than externally. To be clear, I’m not saying there are not issues to be addressed as god knows there are but I don’t understand this aspect.

For example in the US approximately 94% of black deaths are perpetrated by others of African American heritage. Yet in the BLM movement this issue does not appear to be raised or addressed. It seems odd in a context of lives mattering that the mentality is people are happy to accept the 94% and only focus on the 6% as the issue.

It’s like saying domestic violence is an issue and we know that 95% of that occurs within the home but we are going to start a campaign to address domestic violence, completely ignore violence within the home and make the whole focus and concentrate on addressing the 5% that occurs outside the home. Weird.

I've watched a lot of Facebook videos recently of black people in America being pulled over by police or being questions about why they are jogging in a certain neighborhood or being in certain neighborhoods, or being blocked into gated communities or being blocked from entering gated communities (ones they actually live in!!). If people just watched these and what black people have to go though in America then maybe they would understand!

Also watched a video of BLM group going to a trump rally and the trump supporters giving the BLM people a chance to talk. It was a nice video and there was some understanding from trump supports, but there was this one woman in the audience heckling and saying the standard lines "what about black on black crime" and "he was a criminal" that just boiled my piss. Was he a criminal tho 'Karen'? Was the note even fake? Or was the person in the shop suspicious because he was black?(most likely). If it was a fake note, did he know it was fake? If he did know it was fake and was trying to use it, did he really deserve to die for that offence? Wanted to say that person, but what if it was your son? How would you feel then?

Sorry, I've ranted a bit!

Fully support you op

@NurseButtercup thanks. I didn’t have the energy to explain Karen! Or why for a POC it might not be a good idea to refer to a fragile white lady as a cunt to her face, especially in the states! 🤦‍♀️

But it's ok to call her "Karen"?

Pavlova that’s nonsense. I can link you to black men doing fabulous working with young people in London tackling gang culture and knife crime and trying to reengage disenfranchised black youth. Tons goes on in grass roots movements in America too.

And it’s gone on for ages. I can remember msdynamite tackling rap culture cheapening black lives and calling them, “a racists mans pussy” in a lyric.

Had to go find the track for a nice blast from the past. I’m sure she got shit for this from some quarters.

Pavlova, black people aren't killing other black people for being black though

NurseButtercup

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(slang)

The origins of the term "Karen" do not seem as clear cut as you state. Regardless of its origins or the context in which it is used it is a stereotype which I think is lazy. I prefer to name behaviour rather than label people. Racism is an entrenched, society wide problem; how does having a pejorative term for a very specific group of people help, it signals contempt, which is entirely appropriate for anyone exhibiting racist behaviour but we describe those people racists not "Karen's".

If anyone wants a look at how denying people of good environments and dignity and a sense of belonging impacts behaviour amongst that people I’d suggest Colin Turnbull’s, The Mountain People.

But FJON do you agonise about how Nigel’s feel?

TheHoneyBadger
It's not one I've seen used anywhere apart from MN and usually then it's mocking women who are perceived as being quite niave about husband's or partners as in "not my Nigel".

Google tells me Nigel meme's and gif's are usually about Nigel Thornberry from The Wild Thornberry's and I have to be honest as I've not seen it used that frequently I can't judge if it's general usage is supposed to be pejorative but if that turns out to be the case then I couldn't embrace it's usage. So to answer your question, at the moment no I don't because I rarely see the term used. I would also add that calling out sexism wherever it comes from is not strictly "agonising".

Pavlova that’s nonsense. I can link you to black men doing fabulous working with young people in London tackling gang culture and knife crime and trying to reengage disenfranchised black youth. Tons goes on in grass roots movements in America too.

What is nonsense, can you explain? It’s true that statistics show the majority if black lives lost are at the hands of others of the same race. Google current stats for the USA - well over 90% of black lives taken are taken by other people if the same race. It’s a fact. I’m just mystified as to why those >90% of black lives don’t seem to matter at all.

I’m sure there are multitudes of black men doing fantastic grass roots work in this area, I’m not disputing that at all, but I’ve not seen any mention of the causes of the majority of black lives taken mentioned in the BLM campaign and the things being done to address this.

'Karen' is how we blame women for male violence. Karen isn't violent herself, most violence is of course committed by men. The hate filled name we use for those men is.....

I can't think.

I agree.

It really bugs me these days that we can’t talk about one thing at a time.

If we’re talking about black lives mattering, then please let’s talk about that. No “all lives matter” or “but Hispanics/ women/ disabled people” are oppressed too, as it’s another topic.

Similarly if I talk about male violence against women, lets just talk about that and not have “but women can be violent to me/ gay couples can be violent” etc

*Karen' is how we blame women for male violence. Karen isn't violent herself, most violence is of course committed by men. The hate filled name we use for those men is.....

I can't think.*

^^
I fucking hate “Karen”. The defining characteristic of Karen was supposed to be that she a white - it’s an example of how white people behave to blacks people, especially black women. But it’s been turning into a slur against women, and something for misogynists to use against all women!

I'm not in the mood to have a sensible, intellectual academic debate about the political correctness of adopting the moniker "Karen".

I'm pissed off that there are women behaving like this. Which could potentially lead to the outcome of another violent death.

You're pissed off that it feeds into yet more misogyny, leading to, hmmmm let's see hurt feelings of a white women.

You stay in your corner and be pissed off, I'll stay in my corner and be pissed off.

In the meantime, another Karen has been caught on camera up to her usual antics:

www.instagram.com/p/CA_pK64lnkJ/?igshid=ptkol35r93lk

I can't be bothered or upset by white women having their feelings hurt at a time like this. Black women are hardly ever heard and face a lot worse situations in their lives than some hurt feelings. So yeah, privaledged white women can put up with "Karen" for all I care. Maybe they shouldn't act like one if they don't want to be called one.

I think a BAME section would be useful. However, I also think this kind of thread is useful information and insight for those of us who aren't BAME.

And here we go again. Black woman wants a space to talk about their experiences and yet again white woman pops up and makes it all about them. @Scoobyboob I get you.

When you experience being stopped in the street and accused of looking like 'someone they are looking for', when you have to educate your 11 year old son about what to do when (not if) he is stopped by the police, when you are stopped in your car and asked how you could afford such as car and to hand over your documents - and we have to educate others about our experiences. This (and worse) has been happening for centuries in the UK. To not know means you have been living in your white privileged bubble and need to be your own educators.

As a black woman, I am sick of this shit.

And here we go again. Black woman wants a space to talk about their experiences and yet again white woman pops up and makes it all about them.

Yep, so agreed. It's ridiculous how specially on Mumsnet the white women just have to make it about them. Maybe it'd do the world some good if they weren't always centre of attention.

And please don't start defending yourselves by bringing up sexism and feminist issues unless you are educated on intersectionality.

Fair is muff. I’d be fucking sick of it too