All lives matter

[Scoobyboob]

I’ve disabled voting because today has been a lot already! I can’t deal with seeing another such stark display in % or how few people support BLM.
Is there a black Mumsnet section? I could do with somewhere to discuss race with other BAME people and Allies that doesn’t get hijacked with

•all lives matter
•what about...
•I’m oppressed too
•white people are suffering as well
•if black people would just...

Happy to hear suggestions for other forums as well. I don’t think Mumsnet is standing against racism, so i’m happy to flounce to get what I need. Which certainly isn’t the silencing of black voices whilst overt racism goes unchecked!

Hi Justine 👋 and fuck off Karen!

We are one small planet and as far as we know at the moment the only place in the Universe that sustains life of any kind. Of course black lives matter. All life matters. All life on earth is one. But yes, right here, right now, we must say, and learn, and truly believe that black lives matter and build a future where this is no longer in question, no longer an issue.

@MashedPotatoBrainz

This thread is unbelievable. In a week that has seen the most shocking treatment of black people make headline news all over the world, to come on a thread about it and derail it with whinging about hurty feelings at a silly meme name, tells us that you've bloody earnt that name. You need it tatooing across your fucking foreheads.

Exactly this! But on a side note, it's not even the most shocking treatment this past week. This has been in the works for 400 years, the list of names of black victims being murdered by cops is very long. This past weeks events have been the tip of the iceberg and have fortunately brought awareness to a lot of ignorant people. Sadly its so late and this should have been happened years ago but better now then not at all.

For those asking, I think the best thing they can do is educate yourselves. Research online, look at statistics, watching documentaries, sign petitions and donate if you can. Then share your knowledge. Raise awareness to the issues faced and have open conversations with your friends and families. Challenge racist behaviour in your workplace, friends groups and families, don't be afraid to speak up because white people get heard a lot easier than BAME people do. The more people understand how serious of an issue this is the sooner attitudes will change.

I’d be happy to hear actually what black mothers of teens think I can do in the classroom to better support their children.

My son is mixed race and his teacher said something like “what I have to teach you can’t change this term but the way I teach you can, would you like to talk to me about making this useful to you?”

He found that very useful.
That particular teacher has also asked on their video lessons how she can spread BLM to her friends and family and seems very engaged with the pupils.

As an actual disabled person, I understand what exclusion is like therefore I am even MORE of an ally to other marginalised groups, such as BAME people. I hate it when other people use my own marginalised group as a reason not to support BLM.

I sit on an international Equality, Diversity and Inclusion group full of people from all different marginalised backgrounds. No one on there says that Black lives don't matter because white disabled people, or poor white people need support too. Instead, we all work together to improve the situation for all marginalised groups, using our understanding of what it is like to be marginalised in one way, as a starting point to help us understand how another group may be marginalised.

The commonality of experience should breed empathy, not competition.

Pollaidh

What you are describing is "all lives matter" surely?

Will your panel change its work to BLM?

Our panel is about improving EDI for all marginalised groups and we are as eager to support BLM and combat racism as we are to combat homophobia, with strong recognition that race (and poverty) also negatively impact a person's marginalisation within the other marginalised groups (e.g. being black & disabled or LGBTQ+).

We find, in our particular area of work, that we have a louder voice and greater influence when we support each other, instead of lobbying separately.

Outside of that work I personally volunteer and mentor bright kids, almost all BAME, from economically deprived backgrounds.

That is very very different from responding to "BLM" with "All lives matter", which is equivalent to "shut the fuck up".

Which is what I honestly thought but posters on other threads have explained that right now it should be only BLM that are addressed and that other ethnic minorities or other areas of discrimination should only be addressed once the issues affecting black people have been addressed.

The analogy used was, amongst others, two hospitals. One seriously underperforming, the other killing patients. You ignore the underperforming hospital for now and focus all attention on the hospital where patients are dying - do what's necessary to solve that and then wants that is dealt with deal with the underperforming hospital.

Other similar analogies were used.

I really thought the objection to all lives matter was that it was used as a way of shutting people up or that it could include white people rather than only BAME, but several posters have repeatedly told me that only BLM right now and other minorities must take s back seat for now.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras you're being deliberately obtuse. Right now, right this second, the focus is on BLM because a Black man was just killed in the most horrific of circumstances and there are mass protests as a result of that. That doesn't mean individuals can't continue to work and campaign for other minority groups - I'm currently writing to MLAs about the proposed change to abortion law in NI - but a thread/conversation about BLM isn't the place to discuss those actions.

There are certainly many things that urgently need to be addressed, including police racism and brutality.

But, more widely, influencing takes time, to build up relationships, and trust, and take people, especially those who are 'yet to be converted' along the journey with you. IME if you move people like that without making sure they're with you, then the backlash can be savage, because they're usually, as privileged people, powerful so can do a lot of damage, and the moment they can, they switch back to their old ways, but even worse than before, in reaction to it.

You also can't influence and then drop someone, and then come back to them years later and start again because you've been busy on something else in the meantime. It doesn't work. A consistent approach is best, to effect long-term sustained change.

It's hard enough to get resource for EDI issues as it is, though I'm hopeful that the BLM campaign will bring more people on board. Given that resources are stretched I'm very worried that the next time another serious equality issue comes up, a lot of people, newspapers, influencers, will drop BLM and move onto the next 'urgent' (or fashionable) issue, which would risk losing the progress gained for BLM too, because it takes time to truly embed that change. Ideally you could effect all the change you need, but pragmatically speaking, it won't happen quickly enough, and all it will take is another #MeToo moment or similar, for the focus to switch. It can then be even harder to get people to return to the "old" issue, because in many people's eyes, that's already been "done".

In a related issue, if you don't address inequality more generally, then you run the risk of your progress for any particular marginalised group being set back. E.g. mentioning no names, a racist leader, or someone with nefarious plans to cause trouble only for their own benefit, uses ongoing inequality and resentment to set two or more marginalised groups against each other; damaging both, and benefiting only the leader and their cronies.

Others will disagree, and make valid points too. This process takes too long, and whilst progress may be made on a population scale, a lot of individual lives are ruined in the time it takes to make the change happen. All I can say, from my and colleagues' experience from 15+ years volunteering on this, is: Marginalised groups working steadily and consistently together on EDI is the more effective way to effect and embed lasting change.

peachgreen

It isn't me being obtuse, it really isn't.

Look at other threads on here. Posters are explicitly saying this isn't about racism. It is about racism against black people. They are saying that until the problems faced by black people have been solved discrimination faced by AME people needs to take a back seat because black people face the worst levels of discrimination.

So, I'm sorry if I'm confused but there are contradictory arguments being made. You are saying you're right, someone else then says they're right. If I agree with you they tell me I'm wrong. I agree with them you tell me I'm wrong.

I've said I 100% support BLM and I've expressed numerous times my utter condemnation of what happened to George Floyd. I stated that I will do everything I can to not only be not racist but to be anti racist. Then posters on another thread said this isn't about racism, it's about BLM.

That's because people are trying to complain about racism against white people which, in the vast majority of the western world, doesn't exist. This isn't about white people. End of story.

peachgreen

No it isn't. It was very clearly explained that this is about black lives, not Asian people or other minority ethnic people. I thought that it was white people who were excluded but that all other BAME people were included and I was very clearly told no.

Like I said, right now the focus is on Black lives. You can do what you want elsewhere. But these threads are about BLM and that's about Black people.

But you just said it wasn't.

You said it was because I was trying to make it about racism against white people - which I haven't at all. I haven't mentioned white people. Some people appear to be referring on all of these threads to BAME people as though BAME and BLM are interchangeable terms that mean the same thing. I don't expect white people to be included within it.

It really isn’t the time or place for navel gazing.

Peach it sounds like you’ve got some great collaboration going in your group and have built bridges of understanding and common ground whilst recognising the unique ways different groups are disadvantaged.

Ps as far as I’m aware black means different things to different people and in different places. Here it often means non white and is broadly inclusive ethnically. America may be different?

Well, hispanics are treated really poorly in the US and I wonder who is advocating for them.

Agreed. But I see BLM as a signatory to anyone who has suffered racism for not being white, especially in the US. I would include Asians & Latinos under that umbrella, even though the focus is on black.

Maybe we could have a Black, Asian & Latino section on here?!

I was just thinking about that woman, Jane Elliott, who's been campaigning for equality for years. What she said is true: Racism is learned. And anything that has been learned can be unlearned. She's right!

TheHoneyBadger,

Hi, I'm a black mother & I have two boys (in their 20s now) but if you'd like any advice, please feel free to PM me

Karen isn't violent herself, most violence is of course committed by men

Lets pretend you really don't get this.

White men and/or the wokerati use "Karen" to describe older, WC women making complaints. That is sexism compounded by appropriating the original meaning.

The original, is the white MC, often liberal woman who terribly naicely uses their privilege to reinforce white privilege in general, also reinforcing a patriarchal and and social class system along the way. So she may not fire the gun but she creates the situation.

Now you are telling us we can't use a term originated by black people and used by black people because white men (and women) have appropriated it? Fabulous, just fabulous.

Yes MN does need a BAME section. Not because it will be a haven without the regular racists and their whataboutery on every thread but simply as an honest recognition of the problem.

MN has a large user base, it reflects society. That society is racist. White MC racism is particularly insidious due to the power it wields.

Well, hispanics are treated really poorly in the US and I wonder who is advocating for them

3cats considering Hispanic cops feature heavily amongst psycho cops who've shot unarmed black men - It's not just a few, it's many - What does your comment have to do with BLM matter at all? You're surely not under the impression that black people don't notice who is also actively complicit in racist murders by police? Because we surely do. It's widely noted. We have eyes you know.

Is there anything stopping you from starting or joining a movement for Hispanic lives?

Philandro Castile's killer was cleared on Friday. Look him up. There are many like him.

I'm tired of racist white supremacy. Equally tired of it being entirely ignored that police officers who execute black people on the spot aka modern-day lynching, aren't white American. They love the American Dream for themselves and will align with racist white supremacists to eradicate black people because they don't see us as part of it. Albeit exploration of their attitudes could throw up some interesting points about roots in supremacist attitudes and how far one would go to be seen as 'accepted'.

BAME term is a travesty. Might not be fashionable to say it, but it's the truth that many don't want to hear or will come with reverse-racism denial tactics because they don't really want to discuss BLM in depth, just skim the surface.

@ABlackRussian

TheHoneyBadger,

Hi, I'm a black mother & I have two boys (in their 20s now) but if you'd like any advice, please feel free to PM me

Thanks. Not thanking you for making me crave a White Russian though! Out of the necessary ingredients I only have milk.

Thanks also to the pp who answered my question.

Fielded a totally off topic discussion in lesson this year when one bame kid accused another of not having done enough work and I laughed and said that’s the pot calling the kettle black and one of the kids declared, that’s bear racist and the other told him no it’s not you twat. Cue me explaining people used to cook on fires and have a soot residue on the bottom of pots and kettles and a discussion on is something racist because it factually is and is intended as such or is it racist because it is perceived as such? Think the end consensus was I’d probably be best of not using the expression in case someone didn’t get it and took offence but didn’t speak up (no danger of people not speaking up in that particular class).

Weirdly I think I learned that actually I gained a bit of respect and engagement from the boys in that class by being willing to talk about race and let them talk and have a discussion even though it was a science lesson.

The white kids kept mouths firmly shut and looked a bit scared initially. I guess even that generation aren’t comfortable talking about race.

@MashedPotatoBrainz

This thread is unbelievable. In a week that has seen the most shocking treatment of black people make headline news all over the world, to come on a thread about it and derail it with whinging about hurty feelings at a silly meme name, tells us that you've bloody earnt that name. You need it tatooing across your fucking foreheads.

And again, THIS!

In the past few months (just a very few that have actually been given media attention):

Small slim 14yo black child punched and tossed around by burly white officer (in body armour no less) for smoking cigarettes, caught on film however no charges for the officer.

Unarmed black woman shot 8 times for being in her own home by 'kick in the door' drug squad cops (she did not have drugs), no charges for officers.

Young unarmed black man hunted, boxed in and shot to death by a party of three white men (one an ex cop) for jogging. No charges for over two months until video leaked.

Unarmed black man tortured and murdered by three cops as one stood by to keep a crowd at bay. Police dept: 'after suspect was hancuffed officers noticed he was in medical distress and called for ambulance' (cover up lies). City medical examiner: 'he died from heart disease and drugs' (more lies).

And finally...

OMG the name Karen is being used as an insult to white women!!! Oh dear, this defintely needs to be addressed first and foremost

@Jellycatspyjamas

The ignorant one today will become the ally tomorrow. I'm an ally but I wasn't always one, I've learned and still learning but wouldn't have done so if there was an obscure BAME thread people rarely visit except to talk about niche topics (that should really be a humanity topic). Let's persevere please.

It’s really not the black community’s job to educate white people though, and if members of the BAME community feel they would benefit from a dedicated space to talk about the issues they face, why can’t that be accepted as a need.

I know first hand that having a dedicated forum where people just “get it”, and who face similar issues to me can support me has been invaluable and I wouldn’t want to suggest other groups couldn’t have that for the sake of my education.

@Jellycatspyjamas Sorry, I'm late to this but I understand now, actually right after I made that post. As you've written, I think it's necessary, I completely see what you mean.

I saw a post today on site stuff regarding this issue, which is why I came searching for it.