All lives matter

[Scoobyboob]

I’ve disabled voting because today has been a lot already! I can’t deal with seeing another such stark display in % or how few people support BLM.
Is there a black Mumsnet section? I could do with somewhere to discuss race with other BAME people and Allies that doesn’t get hijacked with

•all lives matter
•what about...
•I’m oppressed too
•white people are suffering as well
•if black people would just...

Happy to hear suggestions for other forums as well. I don’t think Mumsnet is standing against racism, so i’m happy to flounce to get what I need. Which certainly isn’t the silencing of black voices whilst overt racism goes unchecked!

Hi Justine 👋 and fuck off Karen!

GreytExpectations

The discussion didn't start very sensibly did it, or it wouldn't have been derailed.

And where have I minimised racism?

I have not.

I've told a poster a slur she's (possibly he's) used is offensive, that's all. As is my right.
No minimising going on there. The OP would have kept the spotlight on the issue at hand by not using it in the first place. It added nothing but problems to what could have been an intelligent and informative discussion.

I understand there is pain involved which clouds otherwise sound judgement, but it's still wrong.

The OP is justified in what she posted. The problem is those white people complaining about being offended will never understand why the OP is so angry. Also a Karen is hardly a slur. If black people have been able to put up with so much worse for longer than I'm sure you can cope for having to deal with a minor insult. If you aren't acting like "a Karen" then you won't get called one.

I understand there is pain involved which clouds otherwise sound judgement, but it's still wrong.

Black people are too busy fighting for their human rights to be worried that a bunch of privaledged white women aren't happy about the use of "Karen".

Are microagressions not a thing any more? Is low level, verbal racism occasionally justified in anger because at least it's not murder?

I mean it's only words? And only murder is worth making a fuss about. The rest is just hurty feelz after all.

Or do words in fact contribute to a culture that devalues peoples lives? I'm careful with mine, because they have intent and meaning.

Maybe others just say any old shit and then say its OK, nobody murdered you.

I do think all lives matter is a rubbish deflection for what in the USA is systemic racism going back centuries.
I personally think access to education and the employment opportunities that come from that actually have a bigger impact on the low income black community that I work in than police contact. Education is paid for by local areas, poor area, low local tax, no money for education.
The high contact with the police is in part triggered by the lack of legal employment, young black men in the area have an unemployment record at 25% when the general level was 3%.
The levels of gun violence within the communities is sky high, 19 people were killed last weekend alone.
Meaning the police are on permanent high alert in the areas which doesn't help.
Decades of housing policies which segregated communities doesn't help either.

So Karen is the least of the issues.

OP, I'm white, not at all racist, but I see your point. Maybe add heading "BAME only please - Black lives matter" ...

It would be very difficult for MN to create an area without a corresponding non-BAME section and such explicit division is not helpful when still trying to promote a healthy multi cultural society. But I understand why you would wish for it. There is so much bullying, prejudism and racism by ignorant people who we should not value, etc. I can see how difficult it would be for MN to represent everyone though.

Personally, I take great interest when my friends want to share their cultural or religious differences. I acknowledge we're not all the same in many respects. I'd miss not being welcome by my BAME friends if excluded.

It has got to be possible to address issues that impact systemic racism in the USA without using cheap sexist language.

Oh ffs can people not hear themselves? If you came on just to point out that Karen is offensive then you’ve done that. You’ve been heard.

Unless you are a privileged, ignorant person who likes whitesplaining and telling black people you know better than them about their lived experiences then no one was talking about you. If that is who you are then yeah, I guess fuck off karen is justified.

This thread has actually made me ok with Karen because it has demonstrated the exact attitudes and behaviours it was presumably used to be a shorthand for.

I’ll say it again-if you’re angry at men using it as a slur on women in general the target of your anger should be those men appropriating black womens language.

GreytExpectations

It's a slur if you're called Karen.

Just like a racial slur affects the person of that race.

I don't really know how anyone can say that suffering prejudice of one kind means it's OK to dish out prejudice of another sort. But you seem to think it's OK.

If I suffered from sexism, made a post about it, and then tacked on a homophobic slur to the end, I'd be called out on it, and quite rightly.

You're angry and I get that, the OP is, as are many. I do understand the anger and I know it makes people say things they wouldn't normally say.

Kunniarotta

The word games comment was about you 'comparing' me to a man you think is an idiot, rather than calling me one outright.

@thenamesarealltaken if someone titled a thread BAME only, non BAME people would claim oppression and exclusion. We literally can't win or do anything right, it's ridiculous.

@MorrisZapp

*Are microagressions not a thing any more? Is low level, verbal racism occasionally justified in anger because at least it's not murder?

I mean it's only words? And only murder is worth making a fuss about. The rest is just hurty feelz after all*

I’ll break it down for you. There is no research to suggest that calling someone a ‘Karen’ affects someone’s access to rights and resources in society, like university admission, access to employment, or likelihood that one will be stopped by the police. It is a form of prejudice, most often manifested in jokes, so whilst it may have some negative impact on the butt of the joke, it is unlikely to have the same kinds of negative impacts that racism does which is often perpetrated by the power yielding dominant race. Do you get it now?

*This thread has actually made me ok with Karen because it has demonstrated the exact attitudes and behaviours it was presumably used to be a shorthand for.

I’ll say it again-if you’re angry at men using it as a slur on women in general the target of your anger should be those men appropriating black womens language.*

This is exactly my point too, just said much better than I could have said.

Also people keep talking about systemic racism is the USA, you do realise it's also an issue in the UK, right? Just want to clarify because I've been many people on Mumsnet claim that the UK doesn't have an issue with racism but they very much do.

@GreytExpectations

"Black people are too busy fighting for their human rights to be worried that a bunch of privaledged white women aren't happy about the use of "Karen"."

Yessss! But these kind of people can't comprehend that this is the perfect example of their sense of entitlement and overriding white privilege.
Careful now, I hear people are being offended by the term white people/ white woman. Must be awfully alarming to be defined by your race for the first time LOL

TheHoneyBadger

I’ll say it again-if you’re angry at men using it as a slur on women in general the target of your anger should be those men appropriating black womens language.

I'm pretty sure the OP is a woman, but he/she can correct me. I'm not sure what difference it makes in this context when the actual basis of the thread was BLM.

But I appreciate you saying I've been heard regarding the misogynistic slur. I hope people on this thread would now think twice about using it as an insult. Thanks.

"I'm offended" is so equal to "I'm oppressed". How dare we be victims, Karen is suffering because she lives up to the Karen stereotype. If she didn't she'd laugh like hundred of Karen's who are Karen by name but not by nature.

[quote MamaLion1319]@GreytExpectations

"Black people are too busy fighting for their human rights to be worried that a bunch of privaledged white women aren't happy about the use of "Karen"."

Yessss! But these kind of people can't comprehend that this is the perfect example of their sense of entitlement and overriding white privilege.
Careful now, I hear people are being offended by the term white people/ white woman. Must be awfully alarming to be defined by your race for the first time LOL[/quote]
Thank you! And indeed, all these poor white women. It must be so hard for them to be judged by the colour of their skin, boy I wonder how that must feel?!

If I suffered from sexism, made a post about it, and then tacked on a homophobic slur to the end, I'd be called out on it, and quite rightly

That’s a false analogy. Homosexuals aren’t a privileged group or the class that oppresses you. The equivalent would be a negative comment about men who are a class who use their privilege over you.

Then you might get some mra’s turn up and accuse you of the made up crime of misandry pretending it’s the sasame as misogyny by completely failing to understand institutionalised power.

Are any bells ringing yet? Even a faint little tinkle if you strain to hear it?

I hope people on this thread would now think twice about using it as an insult. Thanks

And there we have it, we have been told why the white lady. They do hold the power after all, folks.

OP I'm sorry your thread has turned into this, I feel your exhaustion, I feel your pain.
Every time one of us speak we are shut down, what hope is there, despite the protests and the news coverage and the discussions on social media, Karen's feelings take centre stage.

And don’t call me Karen

This thread is exactly the equivalent of if a bunch of men came onto a thread about sexism and domestic abuse and complained about the use of NAMALT. Funny how mumsnet is quick to shut down Misogyny, make sweeping generalisations about all men but God forbid BAME people refer to some racist white women as "A Karen"

Yess Massa, Sorry Massa. I gonna be real good from now on Massa.
Beg you fuck off

GreytExpectations

Your anger is palpable, and I think right now you would argue with me that the sky is green not blue

You said I have been heard, and I said I appreciated it and thanks. None of that is to do with being white, it's about being courteous.